Caporegime
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 77,924
- Location
- Wish i was in a Ramen Shop Counter
Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread
- Thread starter Siliconslave
- Start date
As Raymond Lin stated pre-ground coffee can go stale in a matter of Minutes. Coffee does taste better when you grind it yourself & use it straight after grinding. I began to grind my coffee beans about 5 years ago (After reading this very thread back then) & never looked back. You may get away with using pre-ground coffee for An Aeropress in a Classic, but I wouldn't expect the espresso that comes out of your classic to taste like espresso & the extraction time to be less than 10 seconds for 30ml or 1 fluid oz, I'd expect it for a good espresso to be take at least twice as long for the same amount.
This video explains it a bit better.
You might need this for your pre ground:
http://www.gaggia-parts.co.uk/epages/es147467.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es147467/Products/21000491
All this grinder chat has now convinced me I should get one! I buy ground from a local roastery so it's fresh but I end using for about 3 weeks. The more I read the more it seems that it's essential to grind at home to have best tasting coffee/espresso.
Can you guys please advise from these three: I need a small footprint as I don't want to take up counter space with another large appliance.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-K...8&qid=1488962530&sr=8-1&keywords=burr+grinder
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krups-Expe...8&qid=1488962530&sr=8-3&keywords=burr+grinder
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Medi...8&qid=1488962530&sr=8-2&keywords=burr+grinder
Can you guys please advise from these three: I need a small footprint as I don't want to take up counter space with another large appliance.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-K...8&qid=1488962530&sr=8-1&keywords=burr+grinder
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krups-Expe...8&qid=1488962530&sr=8-3&keywords=burr+grinder
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Medi...8&qid=1488962530&sr=8-2&keywords=burr+grinder
Soldato
- Joined
- 24 Sep 2015
- Posts
- 4,116
For espresso the first two will not be great. I used to have the DeLonghi and it was ok for drip coffee but didn't go fine enough for espresso and was very inconsistent.
Out of those three I'd go for the Hario but I don't think any of them are ideal for epresso. The Porlex Mini is worth a look. I haven't used one but they're apparently very good. The description says it'll grind fine enough for Turkish coffee, I'd be very surprised if it'll go that fine though.
Out of those three I'd go for the Hario but I don't think any of them are ideal for epresso. The Porlex Mini is worth a look. I haven't used one but they're apparently very good. The description says it'll grind fine enough for Turkish coffee, I'd be very surprised if it'll go that fine though.
Hmmm what kind of £ am I looking at to get a good one? I don't want to get a substandard one and waste money, may as well get a proper one in the first place. I just assumed they were good because of all the reviews. My current coffee consumption is about 50/50 espresso / pour over.
I've owned a Porlex for 5 years now. It's been a good grinder but now I have a Rancilio Silvia I don't think its good enough now for making espresso. I've read good things about Made by knock grinders, not cheap mind. I'd like an electric grinder, something along the lines of a Rancilio Rocky or Eureka Mignion, but I don't have the room.
Having never drunk Turkish coffee I wouldn't know if the Porlex would grind fine enough for that type of coffee, I'm pushing my luck getting my Porlex to grind fine enough for espresso these days. Also I do get some sort of satisfaction grinding coffee by hand for some reason instead of pressing a button. I waste hardly any ground coffee too & the Porlex is easy to take apart & clean.
Only bad thing about the Porlex is the handle tends to come off while grinding if you don't get your technique right, but that is on the older model. The new ones the handle design has changed to prevent this.
Soldato
- Joined
- 24 Sep 2015
- Posts
- 4,116
If the Porlex is struggling with grinding for espresso then it definitely won't do Turkish coffee - that's so fine it's like flour.
I use a Rancilio Rocky whuch produces some great results but is a sod to setup again after being taken apart and cleaned.
I use a Rancilio Rocky whuch produces some great results but is a sod to setup again after being taken apart and cleaned.
Hand grinders are never suitable for espresso, let alone turkish. As @the-evaluator says - turkish grind is like flour.
If anything they are unsuitable just for how long and how much effort they will require for you to crank the handle. My Skerton takes 180 turns to grind 18g of beans for a coarse-ish aeropress or drip filter. Yeah, sod doing anything finer than that!
If anything they are unsuitable just for how long and how much effort they will require for you to crank the handle. My Skerton takes 180 turns to grind 18g of beans for a coarse-ish aeropress or drip filter. Yeah, sod doing anything finer than that!
Not sure you could do turkish in a Rocky
TS7 you can get a 2nd hand rocky from gumtree/bay (they are built very well)
the-evaluator why is Rocky difficult to setup again - do you unbolt the burrs ?
I cleaned this weekend : unbolt hopper and unscrew top carrier, scrape with wooden implement/some-washing/vacuum - 1hr
just have to reset to same zero , by remembering hopper/carrier position and dial-in remains the same.
For the first time I have put some ptfe tape on the carrier and am experimenting with stepless by blocking the hopper (101 uses for old inner tube)
so have been running Rave signature at ~6.5.
- As I saw documented, and I agree, one normal step can be 7s of extraction time.
TS7 you can get a 2nd hand rocky from gumtree/bay (they are built very well)
the-evaluator why is Rocky difficult to setup again - do you unbolt the burrs ?
I cleaned this weekend : unbolt hopper and unscrew top carrier, scrape with wooden implement/some-washing/vacuum - 1hr
just have to reset to same zero , by remembering hopper/carrier position and dial-in remains the same.
For the first time I have put some ptfe tape on the carrier and am experimenting with stepless by blocking the hopper (101 uses for old inner tube)
so have been running Rave signature at ~6.5.
- As I saw documented, and I agree, one normal step can be 7s of extraction time.
Soldato
- Joined
- 24 Sep 2015
- Posts
- 4,116
I've never tried Turkish from a Rocky but I wouldn't expect great results.
I find the Rocky a sod to setup again because I unbolt the burrs. I don't drink much espresso so the Rocky doesn't get much use which results in grinds clumping so I need to take it apart properly to give it a thorough clean. Stepless is a very interesting idea, I may give that a try.
I find the Rocky a sod to setup again because I unbolt the burrs. I don't drink much espresso so the Rocky doesn't get much use which results in grinds clumping so I need to take it apart properly to give it a thorough clean. Stepless is a very interesting idea, I may give that a try.
when I use Rocky bis in die, I always expunge grinds by poking a small paint brush in spout and then running momentarily.
I can clean the burrs with a toothpick and coffee passage way with a small splint, and they are impeccable to the eye.
yes - The one time I changed burrs, re-seating/bolting them to level took ages, and I was at risk of marring the new burrs,
I even emailed Happy Donkey to ask whether the new ones might be defective.
I can clean the burrs with a toothpick and coffee passage way with a small splint, and they are impeccable to the eye.
yes - The one time I changed burrs, re-seating/bolting them to level took ages, and I was at risk of marring the new burrs,
I even emailed Happy Donkey to ask whether the new ones might be defective.
Just to correct you a bit here - there are plenty of hand grinders that are suitable for espresso.
Skertons and Porlexs are nice grinders, but they're cheap grinders. Hell, you can get Porlex knock offs on Amazon for about a tenner now.
Although hand grinders aren't for everyone, if you spend a bit more you can get some really capable hand grinders. Hausgrind/Feldgrind are generally considered to be comparable with electric grinders costing twice a much. Spend a bit more and you can consider Pharos / Lido / Helor. Then at the top end you've got the pretty stunning HG-1 which is definitely up there with the best grinders in the world.
Obviously electric grinders are more convenient, but I think hand grinders are certainly an option if you're a 1-2 cup a day sorta guy.
The Gaggia arrived yesterday and the tamper, but I messed up my order of beans (not sure how, but I just didn't finish the order) and the grinder isn't due until today. So, I'm going to have to purchase some beans from somewhere today otherwise it will be sitting unused all weekend... suggestions for emergency supermarket beans anyone? 
So the best I could do last night was prime it and get it ready for use. However I admit I couldn't resist at least testing it out once. So out came the aeropress ground coffee from Rave... and yeah, you can guess the rest!
Still it was useful just to get familiar with the process as it's all new to me
So the best I could do last night was prime it and get it ready for use. However I admit I couldn't resist at least testing it out once. So out came the aeropress ground coffee from Rave... and yeah, you can guess the rest!
Still it was useful just to get familiar with the process as it's all new to me
suggestions for emergency supermarket beans anyone?
Waitrose has Union Hand Roasted and it's pretty good. Just check the roasted on date on the bag. Ensure it's less than 3 months ago. Managed to get some that was roasted 2 weeks before a few weeks back. That was a surprise.
So, I made my first espresso last night using the modern standards beans from Sainsburys. Shame they don't put a roasted date on them, just a batch number which means nothing and can't be investigated on their website.
I used my new hario hand grinder mini and I followed the guidelines on the back of the beans packet, which said 18-20g (this sounded like a lot to my inexperienced mind, I thought the standard was 14g?). The grinder was great and took about two minutes, with much finer results than the aeropress grind, and it looked nice and consistent too... Very impressed.
So into the basket, gave it a tamper, and into the classic. It took a few seconds to start coming through, maybe a bit too long (how long should it take?), I need to start a timer next time I think, but the visual results were pleasing for my first shot. Nice crema, not sure about timings, but over 20 secs for what turned out to be a 3oz shot (oops), need a method to measure!
Some observations:
I used my new hario hand grinder mini and I followed the guidelines on the back of the beans packet, which said 18-20g (this sounded like a lot to my inexperienced mind, I thought the standard was 14g?). The grinder was great and took about two minutes, with much finer results than the aeropress grind, and it looked nice and consistent too... Very impressed.
So into the basket, gave it a tamper, and into the classic. It took a few seconds to start coming through, maybe a bit too long (how long should it take?), I need to start a timer next time I think, but the visual results were pleasing for my first shot. Nice crema, not sure about timings, but over 20 secs for what turned out to be a 3oz shot (oops), need a method to measure!
Some observations:
- I have no idea how hard I am tamping, how on earth do I work that out. I've read I need about 30lbs of pressure.
- The shot was a little bitter/sour, I'm probably too inexperienced to tell the difference tbh.
- Going to try less beans next time - 18g, then work back from there.
- I need shot glasses with measurements on them so I can see 1oz/2oz easily.
- Need to keep a timer running from the moment the pump is turned on.
18 grams is too much for a standard classic basket, the coffee expands during extraction & will stick to the shower screen. 16 grams is more or less the sweet spot, tip: take the portafilter out before extraction, if the screw head is imprinted on the puck then that's too much. 3oz for 20 secs? You should in my opinion (though I'm no expert) be looking at half that amount.
Even though I can program the PID I have on my machine to time the shot I don't bother. Tamping I push down hard but what do I know?? They are offering barista lessons for donations at the London Coffee Festival in 4 weeks time, I'm giving some thought about having a lesson when I get there.
Even though I can program the PID I have on my machine to time the shot I don't bother. Tamping I push down hard but what do I know?? They are offering barista lessons for donations at the London Coffee Festival in 4 weeks time, I'm giving some thought about having a lesson when I get there.
I read this post about 5 mins after grinding while waiting for the classic to warm up... I'll try 16g next time, I went with 18g as I'd already tampered it. But I did check to see if there was any imprint before I extracted and there wasn't.
I timed it this time and had 2 shot glasses with a mark on each at 1oz. It took 6 seconds before anything started to come through the portafilter and it took 20 seconds in total to extract 2oz with a thin layer of crema.
On tasting, it immediately tasted better than last night, however it left a bitter aftertaste after swallowing, so I'm still not satisfied. There are a few things to change next time, 1. 16g of beans, 2. a slightly finer grind, 3. bottled water instead of tap - trip to Tesco required, 4. Fresher beans - but that will have to wait until next week.
Question - How long should it be taking before anything starts coming through the portafilter? And is it 25 seconds from the moment I flick the switch or 25 seconds from the moment I see coffee coming through?
I timed it this time and had 2 shot glasses with a mark on each at 1oz. It took 6 seconds before anything started to come through the portafilter and it took 20 seconds in total to extract 2oz with a thin layer of crema.
On tasting, it immediately tasted better than last night, however it left a bitter aftertaste after swallowing, so I'm still not satisfied. There are a few things to change next time, 1. 16g of beans, 2. a slightly finer grind, 3. bottled water instead of tap - trip to Tesco required, 4. Fresher beans - but that will have to wait until next week.
Question - How long should it be taking before anything starts coming through the portafilter? And is it 25 seconds from the moment I flick the switch or 25 seconds from the moment I see coffee coming through?