Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

Raymond Lin · 13 Oct 2020 at 09:50

Siliconslave said:
A silicon gasket is a good investment from the sounds of it - they don't bake themselves into the machine so you don't end up having to chisel it out later down the line - wish i'd know about them with my classic but will be replacing with one on the maraX...

Theres someone building a 'smart' scales on coffee forums - https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53374-coffee-scales-diy that looks pretty cool - I do need to start my temperature and timing Raspberry Pi build at some point

It's amazing the amount of human ingenuity goes into making something lazier, like putting a scale under a cup. lol. I love the time and effort but they all look DIY and wires everywhere and cluttered. Making the original well designed machine looking a bit like Dr Brown project.

Raymond Lin · 13 Oct 2020 at 09:50

Dj_Jestar · 13 Oct 2020 at 10:00

I own the Brewista smart scale (mk2 iirc) and the "smart" timer never gets used - it just isn't accurate enough. I can start to pour and it'll be a few seconds/gramms before the scales detect the change, and then there is a lag at the end of the pour for the timer to pickup that I've stopped pouring, too.

For weight they are great, nice and accurate to 0.1g and consistently sensitive - I've added 0.1g to 500g and it detects it just fine - but the smart timer is a gimmick.

Siliconslave · 13 Oct 2020 at 10:32

Dj_Jestar said:
For weight they are great, nice and accurate to 0.1g and consistently sensitive - I've added 0.1g to 500g and it detects it just fine - but the smart timer is a gimmick.

Isn't the timer more relevant for pour over where your time accuracy isn't anywhere near as granular?

Project wise i'm looking to put a magnetic switch on the pump which gives an accurate time of how long thats running and theres a serial connector on the marax that pumps out the current temperature. If i could add a scale into the equation then i'd be all set for a totally over the top doc brown contraption...

jpaul · 13 Oct 2020 at 10:50

Raymond Lin said:
I love the time and effort but they all look DIY and wires everywhere and cluttered.

yes it's a bit pompido'esque,
I'd like to see a chart showing how coffee delivery rate/weight changes over time, to evaluate my tamping,
and ... brewhead/water temperature even more so ... it's an engineering/geek thing.

PS - your picture of your new tamper ...it's 'has bean' brand ? can't see their logo though.

Raymond Lin · 13 Oct 2020 at 10:53

jpaul said:
yes it's a bit pompido'esque,
I'd like to see a chart showing how coffee delivery rate/weight changes over time, to evaluate my tamping,
and ... brewhead/water temperature even more so ... it's an engineering/geek thing.

PS - your picture of your new tamper ...it's 'has bean' brand ? can't see their logo though.

That's my existing tamper, It's from Hasbean, they don't make them anymore.

You can get a machine that shows you the chart of delviery rate, it's about £3k though!

Dj_Jestar · 13 Oct 2020 at 11:02

Siliconslave said:
Isn't the timer more relevant for pour over where your time accuracy isn't anywhere near as granular?

Oh yes, absolutely. I suspect this is the case for all smart scales.

Siliconslave · 13 Oct 2020 at 11:09

Dj_Jestar said:
Oh yes, absolutely. I suspect this is the case for all smart scales.

The problem is with espresso the time to start pouring can vary and its relationship to the quality and output is a little vague (and related to pre-infusion and pressure profiling) so timeing from the weight change isn't really helpful unless its linked to the pump - decent have started playing around with this on their machines and scale, as do some of the high end commercial setups. For hobbyists its only useful for pour over where you're trying to control in the time it takes to pour & filter.

jpaul · 13 Oct 2020 at 11:17

Siliconslave said:
The problem is with espresso the time to start pouring can vary and its relationship to the quality and output is a little vague (and related to pre-infusion and pressure profiling)

if there is pre-infusion, yes, that complicates things, but it's a fixed time period,
without that, I recently learned, that shot timing ~ 25s or so, starts when you press go, not on the first dribble.

Egon · 13 Oct 2020 at 11:22

Raymond Lin said:
I really like the basic Gaggia Portafilter with the black handle from Espresso shop. I also got a couple of wooden handle ones (baked and double sprout) but currently like the single sprout better.

Hmm, Is that the original portafilter?

Mine doesn't look like that, but then it is 2012 model. I also bought it 2nd hand refurbished. This is what mine looks like.

That 2nd image shows the wire 'clip' that helps lock a ridged basket into place. Do all portfilters have that?

Raymond Lin · 13 Oct 2020 at 11:26

Egon said:
Hmm, Is that the original portafilter?

Mine doesn't look like that, but then it is 2012 model. I also bought it 2nd hand refurbished. This is what mine looks like.

That 2nd image shows the wire 'clip' that helps lock a ridged basket into place. Do all portfilters have that?

No, it's a replacement. I have binned the original (same one you got) one last week because the handle got so old, I tried placing it (even bought a spare handle) but I couldn't get the bolt off inside it. That end cap came off completely.

So I just replaced the whole thing. I think all portafilter has that wire, I have 3 and they all have it.

Dj_Jestar · 13 Oct 2020 at 11:37

Siliconslave said:
The problem is with espresso the time to start pouring can vary and its relationship to the quality and output is a little vague (and related to pre-infusion and pressure profiling) so timeing from the weight change isn't really helpful unless its linked to the pump - decent have started playing around with this on their machines and scale, as do some of the high end commercial setups. For hobbyists its only useful for pour over where you're trying to control in the time it takes to pour & filter.

Yup. I still use the timer but manually. One finger on the putton, other hand pulling the lever. I start timer as I lift lever, stop timer as I lower it

jpaul · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:26

you did measure your basket ? - was just surprised to see mine is 58.5, I had thought it was 60 when I purchased the 58 tamper

mattyg · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:34

jpaul said:
if there is pre-infusion, yes, that complicates things, but it's a fixed time period,
without that, I recently learned, that shot timing ~ 25s or so, starts when you press go, not on the first dribble.

Are you guys getting the same volume of shot for your 25 secs.

Our commercial machine kicks out a set volume. The only variable is in how long it takes that to pull through. With the weight being a constant (18.5g in our case) tamp and grind course are pretty much the only variables (humidity aside) our Target as guided by the roaster for our blend is 24 secs. Volume will always be the same for us

Raymond Lin · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:41

mattyg said:
Are you guys getting the same volume of shot for your 25 secs.

Our commercial machine kicks out a set volume. The only variable is in how long it takes that to pull through. With the weight being a constant (18.5g in our case) tamp and grind course are pretty much the only variables (humidity aside) our Target as guided by the roaster for our blend is 24 secs. Volume will always be the same for us

I don't measure volume (I used to), I only measure weight. I stop when it hits 30g (14g dose)

mattyg · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:45

Raymond Lin said:
I don't measure volume (I used to), I only measure weight. I stop when it hits 30g (14g dose)

Are you getting inconsistent taste.

I ask because you mentioned issues earlier in the thread.

Raymond Lin · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:46

mattyg said:
Are you getting inconsistent taste.

I ask because you mentioned issues earlier in the thread.

Well, inconsistent in terms of how long it takes to extract. Yes. Sometimes it takes 40s, sometimes 30s. I mean I measure in 14g grind from a Niche Zero into a 15G VST Basket. The variables are few and can't really get much better tbh in a home setting besides getting a machine with PID.

jpaul · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:47

I guess I don't know how the volumetric machines, work - they could/can measure a fixed amount of liquid through the grouphead,
but some gets absorbed&sits on the puck ... so you'd need what? 50g of water for a 30g output.

mattyg · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:49

jpaul said:
I guess I don't know how the volumetric machines, work - they could/can measure a fixed amount of liquid through the grouphead,
but some gets absorbed&sits on the puck ... so you'd need what? 50g of water for a 30g output.

I'll measure it tomorrow. Were closing for at least a month due to being in a tier 3 location so need to do a proper closedown.

mattyg · 13 Oct 2020 at 19:53

Raymond Lin said:
Well, inconsistent in terms of how long it takes to extract. Yes. Sometimes it takes 40s, sometimes 30s. I mean I measure in 14g grind from a Niche Zero into a 15G VST Basket. The variables are few and can't really get much better tbh in a home setting besides getting a machine with PID.

The biggest variable will be with distribution and tamping.

Even my guys can have off days when they are inconsistent in tamping and only get 19 secs. leading to a weak tasting drink

Then we go to the training centre when we take on new staff and their guys are hitting the numbers bang on blindfolded.
But when your doing 3-400 coffees a day the technique gets dialled in. Along with RSI