Sim racers - what are you running?

[banja]

I believe high end pedals can certainly improve times, more than a high end wheel can. And many of the FF effects in wheels are actually replicating the undesirable effects that real race engineers want to remove from the car. Maybe feeling the back end go out or the front wheels locking up can help you go faster, but then again if you're driving over the egde and making those kind of mistakes you aren't going to be WR fast anyway.

If you think about it, FF effects will make the car slower: as the wheel jolts around it will subtly move the front wheels of the car from the optimal path, which will scrub speed. Turn it off completely (use centreing sping) if you want ultimate speed. In fact I discovered in LFS that you could get a (very slightly) higher top speed with keyboard control compared to a wheel or other analogue controller - with the keyboard being digital there is a centering mechanisim which stops the steering / front wheel moving at all when in a straight line. Analogue steering constantly moves around the centre point, subtly moving the front wheels, again therefore scrubbing speed.

 

[Born2BSlow]

Also in LFS some of the fastest racers on there used mouse steering, no FFB at all with a mouse.

 

[danoliver1]

Fanatec are doing a live stream at 3pm to showcase their new podium dd wheel, will be interesting to see how it compares to the osw/accuforce wheels.

 

[Morbie]

I have heard of some top drivers who use logitech etc now starting to switch to direct drive wheels.

I suspect most of us are not racing to be the best but for the enjoyment of close racing and trying to replicate real feel as close as possible. I don't mind if i am a bit slower if it feels more realistic and i have people at my pace to race with.

 

[hyperseven]

Fanatec are doing a live stream at 3pm to showcase their new podium dd wheel, will be interesting to see how it compares to the osw/accuforce wheels.

Just seen GMs overview, $1500, no rim included. Only thing over OSW is native console compatibility, well depending on what rim you buy.

 

[~>Dg<~]

I have heard of some top drivers who use logitech etc now starting to switch to direct drive wheels.

I suspect most of us are not racing to be the best but for the enjoyment of close racing and trying to replicate real feel as close as possible. I don't mind if i am a bit slower if it feels more realistic and i have people at my pace to race with.

nah most of the top time setters will maybe say that as they are being grabbed by teams for esports stuff. which are often in deals with big wheel companies. F1 for eg are now the Fanatec sponsered partners.this is for the next 5 years.

as i said previously you want top times you use a budget set up. you want realism you use high end gear. gimmie any top wheel and gimmie a logitech wheel i will smash it.regardless of price. or how good its supposed to be.

 

[markoboyo11]

nah most of the top time setters will maybe say that as they are being grabbed by teams for esports stuff. which are often in deals with big wheel companies. F1 for eg are now the Fanatec sponsered partners.this is for the next 5 years.

as i said previously you want top times you use a budget set up. you want realism you use high end gear. gimmie any top wheel and gimmie a logitech wheel i will smash it.regardless of price. or how good its supposed to be.

I don't think its as black and white as that mate, it depends massively on the person using it.

What is the difference with a cheap Logitech with no ffb running to a dd with no ffb running.....nothing much.
But having a dd wheel with ffb setting very low will still give you vital detail which a cheap Logitech simply wont.

 

[~>Dg<~]

nah honestly speaking from experience frim using top end gear to mainstream stuff. for top times. i set over one hundred world records on wheels.

you think it would be better it isnt thats why all the top times are on old logitech gear. i even sent all my top end stuff back saying it just cant compete.

 

[Uncle Petey]

We gonna go through this again?

 

[~>Dg<~]

dont want to go through it again but atleast show why ? i know many who smash world records like me on car games literally all of them are on logitech gear. some will show different wheels but its because they sponsered.the top times are set on cheaper gear for the reasons stated.

if you smashing world records or can give incite into why top end gear makes for faster times please share it. i can tell you with 110 percent it makes you slower being more realistic.which is what top end gear gives.

 

[Uncle Petey]

1. I didn't say top end wheels gets you faster times. I never have in any of our 'conversations' on this subject.
2. Have you considered that maybe a lot of those top times set on lower end gear could be because that's just what they have? Considering the countless hours of repetition you have to put in to do those times, I'd also ask if many of those guys are in a position to afford anything higher end, either due to young age or not having a job.
3. You're basically saying that all the extra ffb info and power etc is what slows you down, so what happens if you dial down those effects on higher end gear? Would you still be slower? Why? Are you going with a belt drive vs cogs argument?
If so, what would then make you slower vs a dfgt when using a dialled down DD wheel.

Regarding your experience with the Fanatec gear:

It takes time to get used to a different sized wheel with different FFB characteristics and I don't think you used it for a long enough to adapt. You claim otherwise, but your update posts on here showed a very brief ownership period between you setting up and sending back.

Think about it. How many thousands of hours had you put in on your DFGT trying for records over and over and over again? You're obviously gonna develop some serious muscle memory.
So what happens when you then jump onto a completely different FFB system (that may or not be dialled in properly) that also uses a way bigger steering wheel?
Of course you're not going to just start smashing it. It takes time to retrain yourself to account for all the differences.
If you'd been on a DD or v2.5 from day one of your sim racing 'career' (let's pretend those wheels existed back then) and done all those hours on that instead, do you think you'd just jump onto a DFGT and immediately start smashing your old times because it's apparently superior in that regard?

 

[~>Dg<~]

many i do know have the money or can have the gear for free. the problem is as ive described to you that all the realism slows you down.even on the lowest settings and its not all settings the raw mechanics of higher end gear because its more mechanical slows you down.

you dont have to agree. im just sharing input from me. also friends who stick with what many would class lower end wheels because of what im saying. realism = slower. theres nothing wrong with that. if you not into smashing the absolute top times it wont matter. which 99 percent of people arent.

 

[banja]

There may be a point where high end gives you no better advantage, but there is also definitely a point where budget gear can be a hindrance. A case in point: The original Logitech Driving Force Pro had a polling rate of 125hz (polls per second) When the G25 was released this was bumped to 500hz. I felt this difference immediately when I went from the DFP to G25. On the limit entering a corner the additional responsiveness was completely apparent.

Junk pedals aren't even worth talking about. Crappy pots and wobbly construction will ruin you. Especially the earlier Logitech ones which had pots that actually moved in the housing during use, destroying any brake or throttle consistency.

So there is a sweet spot. If you can dial it in to give the same FF feel (or non, with just centre spring) then I would expect to to get times just as good on high end gear as mid range gear. It's then all down to the optical encoder, bit resolution and mechanics etc. Of course - all bells and whistle FF can be detrimental to optimum times, but that would be the same with lo end wheels too. Just because Huttu and Wolfgang Woegar slaughtered everyone in GPL on a cheap wheel and joystick doesn't mean cheap gear is necessarily the fastest.

 

[Uncle Petey]

many i do know have the money or can have the gear for free. the problem is as ive described to you that all the realism slows you down.even on the lowest settings and its not all settings the raw mechanics of higher end gear because its more mechanical slows you down.

you dont have to agree. im just sharing input from me. also friends who stick with what many would class lower end wheels because of what im saying. realism = slower. theres nothing wrong with that. if you not into smashing the absolute top times it wont matter. which 99 percent of people arent.

Why do I bother with you? Every single time, you just ignore everything and plow on repeating yourself.

Edit:
I'm not sure what you're on about with higher end wheels being "more mechanical" even with lower FFB. There may be a slight argument in favour of cogs vs belts in regard to it being a touch quicker to engage, but we're talking about a tiny difference here.

You also disagreed with markoboyo11 about a DD wheel running lowered FFB vs a Logitech...
Are you aware of just how smooth and free spinning a DD wheel is?
If you're making an argument about mechanical resistance, then you'll find that a DFGT feels like winding up an old alarm clock in comparison.
He's right in that it'd be far superior at whatever your prefered FFB settings are, both in terms of detail and 'mechanical' feel - or lack thereof.

I'd also like to make it clear that I'm not crapping on Logitech wheels. They're great at their price point, and I do agree with you that a used DFGT is a good way to get into it without investing much. I used to have one myself.

 

[markoboyo11]

How can anyone argue that g25 pedals are better for lap times than a good load cell.
Every other person I have read of says different.

The reason most people on cheap wheel probably are setting world records is the have no job or are kids and have all the time in the world.

 

[hyperseven]

Wow, this thread changed direction fast

Thrustmaster TX base with custom rim and button box or Tmaster GTE rim.
Thrustmaster TH8A shifter with short shift mod
Fanatec CSP v1 with damper mod on brake
DIY analogue handbrake
Basherboard CPX v2 for Xbox fun
NLR Wheelstand

Been looking at the SW7C but no reviews out yet and unknown OS.

 

[~>Dg<~]

How can anyone argue that g25 pedals are better for lap times than a good load cell.
Every other person I have read of says different.

The reason most people on cheap wheel probably are setting world records is the have no job or are kids and have all the time in the world.

or they sponsered already . esports is really big now in car games people need to understand whats going on at the moment. most of the fast people are not on high end wheels. dont know how people cant understand. its not about how much money you have when the fast people are sponsered or get there stuff for free. its because reality slows you down.

 

[Uncle Petey]

 

[~>Dg<~]

the only reason i bleated on is because people are stating higher end wheels are better with no evidence.yet i set world records so do my friends most are sponsered so can have any wheels they want for free but most run logitech wheels.why do you think that is ?

people can argue against it but with no experience. i have the experience . telling you what works what doesnt.we are testing the wheels you talking about and giving feedback on how they can be better.

a high end wheel for eg lower degrees so its same or pedals same as a logitech wheel. still slower ? why ? as i said. too mechanical. imagine a clunky metal gearstick vs a plastic gearstick you can move at speed or faster.or pedal where you can feel easier.the logitech has this.thats why they used.

 

[markoboyo11]

Ha ha yep, I'm out.

Each to their own

Anyway has anyone got any experience with the brake on the fanatec elite pedals without the load cell? As adding one later would save a good bit on cost outlay.

Can't find any reviews for it without load cell.