Sim racers - what are you running?
- Thread starter swannyUK
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From my understanding, the Logitech wheels FFB uses cogs and teeth, whereas the Thrustmaster is belt driven, so much smoother
Soldato
A friend asked about the T300RS and G29 so a copy paste of my answer.
Some of the pros attributed to belt driven wheels is simply because they're a better (and more expensive) wheel. For example, most (if not all) belt driven wheels have a higher peak torque than gear drive wheels - higher peak torque is a good thing but this is down to the manufacturers choice of gear/pulley ratio and motor(s) to use rather than being specifically attributable to a belt is better. With that said, gear driven wheels and belt driven wheels work on the same principle of a small motor with a small gear or pulley driving a larger gear or pulley attached to the wheel. This means they suffer most of the same cons; lower FFB torque, slower rotational speeds and some tiny torque inconsistencies due to gear lash and belt tension when FFB oscillates. As said though, these cons apply to both though so can't really judge which is better on these.
There is one advantage belt wheels have; smoothness and as a consequence, noise. Because of gear lash (the small gaps between the gear teeth) when the FFB engages and closes this gap there can be quite a clunk noise and over something like a kerb that causes oscillation of the FFB it causes a rattle. As a belt pulley is designed differently, there isn't the requirement for this lash and so are quieter in their operation.
With respect to your specific question, objectively the T300RS GT is a better wheel; as above it's belt driven so will be quieter (though the fan on the TM still makes some noise), a quick google shows the peak torque being almost twice that of the G29 (3.9Nm v 2.1Nm), the T300 is 1080 vs G29's 900 degree rotation, there's more customisation options with the TM as you can change wheels rims if you want as well as being able to expand the TM to include a h pattern shifter (which is superior to the Logitech offering) and a handbrake/sequential shifter if you want one too. Finally, the t3pa pedals are better than the Logitech offering too - this is arguably subjective rather than objective but it's hard to find someone that says otherwise so I'm counting this as objective too.
How much 'value' you attribute to all of that is your personal opinion and somewhat governed by what you like to race. In my opinion though, while the price difference isn't insignificant, it is worth it.
Some of the pros attributed to belt driven wheels is simply because they're a better (and more expensive) wheel. For example, most (if not all) belt driven wheels have a higher peak torque than gear drive wheels - higher peak torque is a good thing but this is down to the manufacturers choice of gear/pulley ratio and motor(s) to use rather than being specifically attributable to a belt is better. With that said, gear driven wheels and belt driven wheels work on the same principle of a small motor with a small gear or pulley driving a larger gear or pulley attached to the wheel. This means they suffer most of the same cons; lower FFB torque, slower rotational speeds and some tiny torque inconsistencies due to gear lash and belt tension when FFB oscillates. As said though, these cons apply to both though so can't really judge which is better on these.
There is one advantage belt wheels have; smoothness and as a consequence, noise. Because of gear lash (the small gaps between the gear teeth) when the FFB engages and closes this gap there can be quite a clunk noise and over something like a kerb that causes oscillation of the FFB it causes a rattle. As a belt pulley is designed differently, there isn't the requirement for this lash and so are quieter in their operation.
With respect to your specific question, objectively the T300RS GT is a better wheel; as above it's belt driven so will be quieter (though the fan on the TM still makes some noise), a quick google shows the peak torque being almost twice that of the G29 (3.9Nm v 2.1Nm), the T300 is 1080 vs G29's 900 degree rotation, there's more customisation options with the TM as you can change wheels rims if you want as well as being able to expand the TM to include a h pattern shifter (which is superior to the Logitech offering) and a handbrake/sequential shifter if you want one too. Finally, the t3pa pedals are better than the Logitech offering too - this is arguably subjective rather than objective but it's hard to find someone that says otherwise so I'm counting this as objective too.
How much 'value' you attribute to all of that is your personal opinion and somewhat governed by what you like to race. In my opinion though, while the price difference isn't insignificant, it is worth it.
Thank you TC Overclocker on the condensed summary!
And thanks for the detailed insight Greboth!
I just realised it isnt the G29 I have but the G920, but I think they have the same gubbins just one for PS and the other for Xbox....
Question is, is it worth going for the T300 now... or try to get a fanatec soltuion somehow....
And thanks for the detailed insight Greboth!
I just realised it isnt the G29 I have but the G920, but I think they have the same gubbins just one for PS and the other for Xbox....
Question is, is it worth going for the T300 now... or try to get a fanatec soltuion somehow....
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Wo
Fanatec is the next upgrade from g920 really, not much else on the market.
I went from g29 to csl elite and its a nice upgrade but not a mind blowing difference really.
Wouldnt of thought there is much point going from g920 to t300.
Fanatec is the next upgrade from g920 really, not much else on the market.
I went from g29 to csl elite and its a nice upgrade but not a mind blowing difference really.
Problem is I cant find that CSL Elite package with the F1 wheel....
Only one I can find is this:
https://fanatec.com/eu-en/bundles/clubsport-wrc-bundle-for-xbox-one-pc
Only one I can find is this:
https://fanatec.com/eu-en/bundles/clubsport-wrc-bundle-for-xbox-one-pc
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Yeh I'm pritty sure its any wheel with any base, unless you buy a rim to use with their separate paddles.
That bundle you linked looks like a decent enough buy, I'm considering selling mine as its basically just sat in a cupboard never getting used but not sure if I can part with it just yet.......incase i get back into sim racing.
If you are already on a G29 I would agree - go for Fanatec for a worthwhile upgrade. If you plan on getting more into it as a hobby you would probably want to upgrade later down the line anyway. "Buy once, cry once" is the saying I think!
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It will be worth the splurge pal.
While I wasn't blown away by the extra power and detail in the feedback I was extremely impressed by the quality.
It's basically moving from a kids toy to a adults toy.
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And when you're in the fanatec eco system, it all works together so you can just upgrade it bit by bit if you want to. Or change parts over.
If you want to save a few quid you can get the standard elite pedals then upgrade them with the load cell at a later date. That's what I did - the load cell kit is actually more than the entire rest of the pedal set! Or just go all out and get the clubsport v3 ones off the bat
Ah cheers Dunners was just about to ask about the pedals. I was going to go with the Elite LC version.. but then I saw the V3 which seem to be more robust?
What is are the differences between the CSL and the V3?
Also I noticed there is a kit for the V3 which changes the load cell springs/rubber? I thought they operate under the loadcell concept?
https://fanatec.com/eu-en/accessories/pedal-accessories/clubsport-pedals-v3-brake-performance-kit
What is are the differences between the CSL and the V3?
Also I noticed there is a kit for the V3 which changes the load cell springs/rubber? I thought they operate under the loadcell concept?
https://fanatec.com/eu-en/accessories/pedal-accessories/clubsport-pedals-v3-brake-performance-kit
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I use one of the spare seats I have for my 125 shifter kart. Get's me right into the mood for racing straight away. There's something about the seating position that gets me.
Wheel is a G920, not the best but it'll do.
Wheel is a G920, not the best but it'll do.
Yep the V3s have a load cell already and I believe the brake performance kit gives you a different/stiffer feel with the ability to adjust the pressure further if needed. The reddit simracing group has been very useful for me when I was researching.
To be honest I have my load cell on a fairly low setting as they really do take quite some pressure to fully depress. After a few hours getting used to it it's definitely made me faster and braking is much more like a real car. I would say a solid rig would be essential for a load cell brake by the way. May have missed it but not sure if you said what rig you were running?
Just to confuse you even further I've decided to go for the Heuskinveld sprint pedals next as opposed to v3s as they seem to be more highly regarded. I figured I'd start with the entry level elites ones then go up to them later as it was getting very expensive upgrade in one go!
Soldato
I too find it a little confusing as some wheels are Clubsport wheels but fit CSL bases yet others only fit the Clubsport base. So not every wheel is compatible with every wheel base though AFAIK each page has a compatibility section if you scroll down to tell you which bases the wheels are compatible with.
It is a load cell but I think they're tying to mimic a real car. Obviously a real car is hydraulics but you still have a small movement of the pedal before it becomes about the pressure on the pedal. So the load cell pedals have also have a small amount of movement before being about the pressure applied. Rather than work on a traditional spring, it works on the compression of the rubber pellets (or whatever they're technically called). I think I went for the middle stiffness of the performance kit and my pedal moves about 1cm before becoming solid and so about pressure.
I've got a CSL wheel base and V3 pedals with the performance kit so happy to answer any questions I can. The Sim Racing Garage youtube channel is also worth a watch as he breaks down everything and explains how it all works etc.
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This is my rig at the moment. Next on the list is a wheel and base upgrade. As I play on PS4 as well as PC, I think I'm stuck with a Fanatec DD1 as my only option
