Singapore Grand Prix 2011, Marina Bay Street Circuit - Race 14/19

sunama said:
Personally, if I were in Christian Horner's shoes, I wouldn't hire Hamilton. I would stick with the Vettel/Webber partnership as they are doing a great job together. I can't help feel that Hamilton at RBR will cause fireworks, similar to what saw in 2007 (with Alonso)...and how I love to see fireworks ;)
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From a racing pov I would agree. Surely what a team wants is a fast no1 driver who can win if the car is good enough and a no2 driver who can pick up points for the team but not challange the no1 driver. This gives the team the best chance in both the drivers and constructors chapionship.

RBR and Ferrari already have fast no1 drivers in Vettel and Alonso so why would they want Hamilton? JB has proven he is diplomatic enough to fit into a team wihtout being no1 but is maybe too fast and could take points off the no1 driver if the car suits him. The only reason I can see them wanting Hamilton is if they believe he can attract more money from a pr pov.

Also for the drivers it must be difficult to know whether to change or not when they are in a top team. Hamilton would look like a plonker if he left Mclaran and then they produce the fastest car :D
 
freebooter said:
Hamilton would look like a plonker if he left Mclaran and then they produce the fastest car :D
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This is the big danger.
But that's the risk that a driver takes, when he jumps ship from one leading team to another.
It happens in Football as well. Didn't Marc Overmars leave Arsenal for Barcelona and that very season, Arsenal ended up making the champions league final?

Hamilton has mentioned to the media that he believes firmly that RBR will once again have the fastest car, so that tells me that he has belief in RBR's design/engineering department. Now, when this is the case, why shouldn't Hamilton (who is hot property) want to drive for RBR, given that he believes in RBR more than McLaren?

The problem I see at McLaren is that they don't seem to be feel the need to make any changes. They are simply plodding on with their existing design (car building) and team strategy, which has failed them for the last 3 years (2009 being the worst). Another problem is that they are allowing Button and Hamilton to take points off of eachother.

Now, compare this with Ferrari who have made personnel changes. They brought in Alonso (who they believe is the best driver in F1). They forced Massa to accept that he is No.2 and that he must tow the line. In a nutshell, Ferrari are preparing for a major assault on the World title and are prepared to try different things to see which method works.

For me, Redbull have the best design/engineering department in F1.
If any of the chasing teams want to beat RBR, they have to either have a better car (unlikely, at present), have a better driver than Vettel (unlikely, at present) or have a better race/team strategy (this is possible). Ferrari have accepted this, but McLaren haven't.

If I were in charge of McLaren, I would speak to both drivers and perhaps agree that in 2012, whoever has more points after the first half of the season, the, other driver must become No.2 and all effort shall be directed towards the No.1 driver (whoever that may be). And that the No.2 driver must back up his team-leader without question. I'm astonished that they are continuing to allow their 2 drivers to race for the whole season.
 
historically though McLaren have always been like this, I doubt they'd change. I also doubt JB would have signed if he was not allowed to race Ham. he left Brawn/Merc because Schuey was coming and didn't like thwe possibility he'd be bumped down, but who can blame him as the WDC....
 
I'd be extremely surprised if driver changes were being openly speculated at RBR. Talk like that can immediately undermine a whole team. Mischievous comments are something entirely different though...
 
AcidHell2 said:
Due to his contracts, he annoyed managers and teams.
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Everyone along the pitlane knows that that was bad management advice given to JB - yes he made mistakes, but he was also still pretty young then as well

Remember JB also is severely out of pocket for it, so its not like it didnt cost him a small fortune at the same time!!!

The worst deal was at Benetton Im still convinced Flavio ****** JB good and proper - while having a personally managed driver in the other bennetton seat for both years JB was there ( and if that isnt a conflict of interest I have no idea what is )

I wouldnt have thought being in Flavio's team would have helped JB's image
 
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smr said:
I still think Ferrari are going to do something special in the next two years... just a gut feeling.
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All they seem able to do at the moment is copy RB. Would be good to see them try something innovative like McLaren did this year, but I doubt it is going to happen - as we speak they are probably hard at work integrating the RB floor from Monza into next years car.

MooMoo444 said:
Someone like Massa, especially if the Button->Ferrari rumours are true :p
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They would be better off trying a younger driver, or at least someone better than Massa.
 
3dcandy said:
Red Bull have several young drivers they could try....I'd place bets on a shootout to see who gets it!
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The guy driving the HRT is most likely (Ricardo?) as the STR drivers arent covering themselves in glory over the last 2 seasons - Im talking 2013 not 2012 though...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
What about someone like Sutil? He is a good driver and would fit nicely into the German/Austrian outfit.

I'm pretty sure that Sutil would jump through hoops to get to drive an RBR.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Couldn't be worse than Webber tbh. Either Vettel is driving the socks of that car, or Webber is just really useless. Webber's starts lead me to the second one :p
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Webber certainly isn't a bad driver. He is just average, which is fine for a No.2 driver.

The problem for Webber is that Vettel is fantastic at time trialling. And given the amount of practise he has had, he is probably now the best at that.

Also, with regards to Vettel not driving the socks off the car: with the exception of this forum, most F1 pundits/fans agree that Vettel is fantastic and is driving the socks of the car. Even in the BBC F1 commentary, this is mentioned unanimously. Not a single one of the BBC team has said that Vettel isn't really that great. For some reason people on this forum don't want to accept just how good Vettel is. Very strange.
 
sunama said:
Webber certainly isn't a bad driver. He is just average, which is fine for a No.2 driver.

The problem for Webber is that Vettel is fantastic at time trialling. And given the amount of practise he has had, he is probably now the best at that.

Also, with regards to Vettel not driving the socks off the car: with the exception of this forum, most F1 pundits/fans agree that Vettel is fantastic and is driving the socks of the car. Even in the BBC F1 commentary, this is mentioned unanimously. Not a single one of the BBC team has said that Vettel isn't really that great. For some reason people on this forum don't want to accept just how good Vettel is. Very strange.
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The main problem with Webber, is that for whatever reason, he has been overhyped throughout his whole career. A better driver would have produced a lot more 1-2 results this season.

Vettel is doing well and has certainly upped his game - I am just waiting to see what happens when the car is either evenly matched, or slightly behind another team. Then we will see how good he is.
 
3dcandy said:
Young Daniel? Yup saw him at Silverstone @ renault sport day....didn't appear too good actually!
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RBR must have faith - why else pay another F1 team to use him as a driver? First time Ive heard thats happened...
sunama said:
What about someone like Sutil? He is a good driver and would fit nicely into the German/Austrian outfit.

I'm pretty sure that Sutil would jump through hoops to get to drive an RBR.
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Outdone by a rookie consistently in the first half of this season - not a great endorsement - I know hes higher in the standings but hasnt done that much to show hes far better than his far inexperienced partner. Fully expect RBR not to use STR as their driver pool though...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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ps3ud0 said:
Outdone by a rookie consistently in the first half of this season - not a great endorsement...
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Remember, they are looking for a No.2 driver. If they needed an equal No.1, they would just go and hire Hamilton.

What they need is a reliable No.2 driver and Sutil should be able to do this.

Sutil has not been outdone by a rookie. He sits on 28 pts vs 20 pts to his team-mate.

He is a decent driver and should be able to perform No.2 duties.
 
sunama said:
Remember, they are looking for a No.2 driver. If they needed an equal No.1, they would just go and hire Hamilton.

What they need is a reliable No.2 driver and Sutil should be able to do this.

Sutil has not been outdone by a rookie. He sits on 28 pts vs 20 pts to his team-mate.

He is a decent driver and should be able to perform No.2 duties.
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Naah they want a No1.5 driver - or even better someone whose 1.25 :p

I do really wish I lived in your world where everything is so easily pigeon-holed. I sometimes wonder if Im not participating in a Turing test ;)

EDIT: To actually make a useful post, I cant see how Sutil is doing a great job this season, enough to make him of interest to RBR, as no doubt the vast majority would say Di Resta is doing the better job overall considering his lack of experience and his qualifying ability...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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