Ok so now you are just making things up to argue
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2012/singapore/Pages/lap_chart.aspx
Singapore Grand Prix 2012, Marina Bay - Race 14/20
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2012/singapore/Pages/lap_chart.aspx
Oh dear so you are ignoring those ahead who had not pitted and would have been passed regardless of the SC? really lolskeeter.
No. If your claiming that the safety car gifted Vettel and Button fresh tyres, I'm saying it also gifted Alonso 4 places.
4 places and it put him right on the tail of Button and Vettel, who promptly drove away from him.
4 places and it put him right on the tail of Button and Vettel, who promptly drove away from him.
Last edited:
Oh dear you really are being silly now, so you are saying Di Resta, Grosjean and Nico would simply carried on without pitting? lol Vettel and Button did pit under the SC, which is what even Brundle said as a free stop as you lose so little time compared to pitting under racing conditions, but you should really know that.
The SC gifted nothing to Alonso.
Even Alonso says you are wrong, so really you are just arguing a point that makes no sense, for the sake of it.
So your saying being behind 4 slower cars either waiting for them to pit or having to pass them would be better than being in front of them having used up no tyres or fuel getting infront, being right on the tail of the top 2, and allowing you to move from a 3 stop to a 2, which it sounds like Ferrari did.
Given that up till that point Alonso had been stuck behind Maldonado for most of the race, its fairly safe to assume that Alonso would have been stuck in that traffic until they pitted, which could have been a while, and in the mean time Vettel and Button would have been long gone.
The SC put Alonso in a position to challenge the leaders he wouldn't otherwise have been in. It did not hurt him badly. Yet your once again desperately trying to hold onto your argument long after its crumbled around you.
If you can find it, what was the gap between Alonso and Vettel at the end of lap 32?
Given that up till that point Alonso had been stuck behind Maldonado for most of the race, its fairly safe to assume that Alonso would have been stuck in that traffic until they pitted, which could have been a while, and in the mean time Vettel and Button would have been long gone.
The SC put Alonso in a position to challenge the leaders he wouldn't otherwise have been in. It did not hurt him badly. Yet your once again desperately trying to hold onto your argument long after its crumbled around you.
If you can find it, what was the gap between Alonso and Vettel at the end of lap 32?
You really are talking rubbish now, the SC did not gift him those positions, they had to pit SC or no SC, the SC benefited those who had not pitted, Seb, Jenson even Di Resta who ended up right on the tail of Alonso. Alonso was all over Pastor and the pass was going to happen. So you claiming the SC gifted Alonso 4 places is simply wrong. He would have had those places back even if he had to sit and wait on them pitting as you say yourself which kind of crumbles your point entirely.
I have no argument to crumble you are the one making a fool of yourself, the gap to Lewis on lap 20 was 11 seconds, Alonso was lapping nearly 1 second quicker than Lewis, Lewis retired on lap 22, you do the maths. Instead of wading in to have a go at me maybe check your facts firstly.
Ah the old can't admit I was wrong, let's change tact approach, off course in 2008 they never had to stick to a really slow delta time when the SC came out, but again don't let the facts get in the way of anything
Says the man who started talking about catching Hamilton when he ran out of ammunition on the SC point...
To answer my own question, as you "changed tact to avoid admitting you were wrong", at the end of lap 32, at the point that the SC came out Alonso was 40.8 seconds off the lead, in 7th place, loosing a second a lap stuck in traffic. Yes all those in front of him had to pit, but a pit stop cost 30 seconds. So assuming Vettel and Button would have both pitted on lap 33, before Alonso dropped any further back, he could have expected, at best, to have been 10 seconds behind the leader. That then also assumes that the other 4 in front pitted too to get out of his way. In reality, they probably wouldn't have all pitted on lap 33, so being 10 seconds behind in 3rd place after everyone pitted twice is the absolute best possible outcome for Alonso sans SC.
With the SC, he resumed the race in 3rd, everyone around him having stopped twice, traffic cleared, and only 2 seconds behind Vettel.
So no, the SC didn't hurt Alonso. It put him in a better position, but he still had no answer to Vettel and Button.
To answer my own question, as you "changed tact to avoid admitting you were wrong", at the end of lap 32, at the point that the SC came out Alonso was 40.8 seconds off the lead, in 7th place, loosing a second a lap stuck in traffic. Yes all those in front of him had to pit, but a pit stop cost 30 seconds. So assuming Vettel and Button would have both pitted on lap 33, before Alonso dropped any further back, he could have expected, at best, to have been 10 seconds behind the leader. That then also assumes that the other 4 in front pitted too to get out of his way. In reality, they probably wouldn't have all pitted on lap 33, so being 10 seconds behind in 3rd place after everyone pitted twice is the absolute best possible outcome for Alonso sans SC.
With the SC, he resumed the race in 3rd, everyone around him having stopped twice, traffic cleared, and only 2 seconds behind Vettel.
So no, the SC didn't hurt Alonso. It put him in a better position, but he still had no answer to Vettel and Button.
Last edited:
LOL what planet are you on? my initial point was Alonso was catching Lewis to sunama, you then jumped in and said I was confused, only then the SC was discussed due to you claiming it gifted Alonso 4 places, so I am not sure why you are trying to change things around to suit yourself.
The SC helped Seb and Jenson as Alonso himself said (but you know better) as it changed the strategy of the race. You claimed Alonso was gifted 4 places due to the SC which was nonsense. It's a tough one who to believe, the F1 driver who has won 2 titles, or Skeeter the Alonso hater, tricky choice.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Lets put all the bickering aside for now and all agree on one thing.
Maldonado is a tool.
Maldonado is a tool.
Ha, agreed.
Although he was a bit unlucky at Singapore. That's got to be one of the first times that the reason he didn't score points wasn't his own fault?
Senna stepped in to fill the void though. How many times did he hit the wall over the weekend? Must have been 4 or 5 times.
I dont know how anyone can argue that Alonso didnt benefit from the safety car
Yes I know that it effectively takes less (track) time in relation to others to complete a stop under SC conditions, however as Skeeter stated Alonso gained time in relation to the leaders (even without the traffic inbetween them) thanks to the race bunching up behind the SC.
(Of course Alonso himself will argue one way, like every other racing driver in the known universe lol)
I may be mis-remembering but I also believe Di Resta was pulling away from Alonso just before the SC wasnt he (which obviously stopped as soon as the SC was released)
Post #1025 , a couple of pages back
Yes I know that it effectively takes less (track) time in relation to others to complete a stop under SC conditions, however as Skeeter stated Alonso gained time in relation to the leaders (even without the traffic inbetween them) thanks to the race bunching up behind the SC.
(Of course Alonso himself will argue one way, like every other racing driver in the known universe lol)
I may be mis-remembering but I also believe Di Resta was pulling away from Alonso just before the SC wasnt he (which obviously stopped as soon as the SC was released)
Post #1025 , a couple of pages back
Last edited:
Skeeter said he was gifted 4 places which was not true, he also said Lewis was 15 seconds ahead of Alonso when he retired which was also not true. I guess you just don't understand how it changed the strategy of the race. Alonso was not arguing nothing its not like he said the SC cost him the win.
Lewis was something like 15 seconds ahead
Alonso was 40 seconds behind when the SC came out, so at the very least Alonso gained 10 seconds (without considering any more laps Button / SV could have done without the SC appearing) as well as leaping infront of traffic that would have extended that 40 seconds even further
I understand just fine thank you very much
No Lewis was not no matter how many times you say it won't make it true.
You really just don't understand and I can't be bothered trying to explain how the SC did nothing to help Alonso.
F1 fanatic has some awesome lap charts.
This shows the gap in seconds between 1st position:
Alonso in red, Hamilton in orange.
There's obviously a big spike for both drivers due to their pitstop but it's clear that from lap 17, Alonso was closing the gap by around a second a lap up to the point that Hamilton retired.
When Hamilton retired the gap was at 9.68 seconds.
This shows the gap in seconds between 1st position:
Alonso in red, Hamilton in orange.
There's obviously a big spike for both drivers due to their pitstop but it's clear that from lap 17, Alonso was closing the gap by around a second a lap up to the point that Hamilton retired.
When Hamilton retired the gap was at 9.68 seconds.