Singapore Grand Prix 2013, Marina Bay - Race 13/19

[El_Watcher]

Because the hardware is so much more reliable now than in the past, and performance differences are as small as they've ever been - the championship is more down to the driver these days. This is surely a good thing, no?

In equal machinery, for sure the driver has more input, but if you take the current RB and the current Ferrari, they are quite difference in performance, going from qualifying pace.

Actually, it is because of the improvement in reliability, that the lower teams are closer than previously. Where before a team had to run slower to avoid engine failures, they can now run closer to their limit, knowing components are not going to fail as often.
This does not mean though, that the lower teams are any closer to the top teams in getting points/wins. Decades ago, the bottom teams were about two or three laps down by the end of a race. Currently, the bottom teams are about two or three laps down by the end of the race. I.E. no real change.

If you were to average out everything, team performance might be marginally closer at the mid to top than previously, but the reliance on aero means how a team starts their design has a massive effect on performance, and the type of track also has a massive effect on how affective the design is.
In the past, for example, if the Ferrari engine in car A had more horsepower than the Cosworth in car B, car A would be more successful than car B no matter what track. Now even though the Mercedes and Ferrari engines are proven to be faster than the Renault engine, because Red Bull have different aero styles, they are faster than other cars even in a straight line at Spa/Monza, whereas you just can't tell where other teams might be quick.

 

[XeNoN89]

Vettel fans will be pleased to know he has reached the point now where I do believe he is up at the same level of Hamilton & Alonso. The guy is seriously quick regardless of the car. Webber was nowhere near his speed at any point during the race.

 

[Skeeter]

Webber was nowhere near his speed at any point during the race.

Nobody was near his speed. 2.5 seconds a lap quicker than everyone as an when he felt like it is incredibly impressive.

 

[El_Watcher]

F1 has once again been the victim of poor media coverage of something. Webber and Alonso were not penalized for the lift back to the pits. Webber was penalized for running across the track across the racing line after the apex on a blind corner, and Alonso was penalized for stopping on the racing line after the apex on a blind corner.

I thought Webber was penalised for re-entering the track without the permission of the marshals?
And according to my link to the official F1 site, even they reference the "lift" as being the cause of the penalty so it is not just the "media" doing it

Does anyone have a photo of the actual FIA ruling sheet on the penalties?

I do like the fact that Webber tweeted the picture of Warwick (the driver steward who penalised him) getting a "lift" back from Berger in Japan '88

 

[Mr Men]

Vettel fans will be pleased to know he has reached the point now where I do believe he is up at the same level of Hamilton & Alonso. The guy is seriously quick regardless of the car. Webber was nowhere near his speed at any point during the race.

Webber was always in traffic and being told to keep 2 seconds behind Alonso, Seb had clear air all the way. Nico was also managing his pace from turn 3 and running to save his tyres which held the rest behind.

 

[smr]

Think you might need to attend some F1 races across the globe rather than sitting in blighty and commenting on the interwebs from your PC/laptop.

Erm... I was talking to Orch, and what the hell has attending races across the globe got to do with anything at all that we're talking about???

 

[smr]

You're obviously the kinda guy who's well into his F1 and is quite opinionated.

My point is, forget analysing all the info, web, BBC and other crap and get yourself out for some races. Internet only fans can go **** themselves, the real F1 fans are obvious and there are many many out at the races I've been to.

Its funny watching forum responses from the TV footage with people being very opinionated and trying to show off their thoughts off when they are the ones watching it at home, on the internet and tv, in their pants, and there are many people actually there at the events, rightfully laughing at such **** giving some live perspective.

Oh I see... I gather that this is aimed at me what with the last post you wrote to me (above)...

Yes because naming my two year old son Jenson, attending the British Grand Prix in 09,10,11,12,13 and testing in 13 and Spa in 2011 means I'm an "Internet" fan only.

How on Earth you think anyone's stance changes on the Webber / Alonso issue due to whether or not they've seen it live is retarded.

How you seem to think that going to events on the other side of the world makes you a "bigger" F1 fan is... well, LOL... but in your case;

Congratulations on spending a fortune on the most boring race in history.

 

[this_is_gav]

Congratulations on spending a fortune on the most boring race in history.

To be fair, I'm sure the race was infinitely more interesting in Singapore than it was on TV.... actually, no, it was just plain bad.

That said, it looks a fun place to go to take in the whole GP experience, for what goes on around the event, outside the track. Quite a surreal weekend, I'm sure. Certainly infinitely more interesting than the vast majority of the circuits thrust upon us in the past decade, I'm sure.

 

[smr]

Well whatever, I'm not commenting anymore on the subject. It's pretty sad that all we have to talk about is the Alonso and Webber thing, I enjoy reading the post race thread where people assess who did well and who didn't but there just isn't any of that here.

Vettel being booed, Webber getting reprimanded for being silly, I'm hoping that Korea turns out to be a thrilling race, even if in recent history it hasn't so we can all focus on the racing itself.

 

[Skeeter]

Its Korea next? Dear god give me strength.

 

[TaKeN]

Best Korea.

 

[Sparky]

Love Korea.

 

[Glaucus]

Hunt vs lauda on bbc four now, not sure ive seen this program before, even though its a reapet.

 

[Rybo89]

Hunt vs lauda on bbc four now, not sure ive seen this program before, even though its a reapet.

Yeah i watched it Sunday. Its a good watch.

The ex Ferrari and Mclaren team principles from the Hunt and Lauda days clearly still hate each other till this day lol.

Also Hunt to Lauda "You are the only guy that can come out of a fire better looking"

 

[tummelv]

Its Korea next? Dear god give me strength.

Hahahaha

 

[Flibster]

Does anyone have a photo of the actual FIA ruling sheet on the penalties?

They're available here.

http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013/09/well-done-fia-webber-hit-with.html

And an interesting rumour. Kimi will be in Korea in an observer role only. Could be out for the rest of the season due to back injury.

 

[-Ad-]

Oh I see... I gather that this is aimed at me what with the last post you wrote to me (above)...

Yes because naming my two year old son Jenson, attending the British Grand Prix in 09,10,11,12,13 and testing in 13 and Spa in 2011 means I'm an "Internet" TTY fan only.

How on Earth you think anyone's stance changes on the Webber / Alonso issue due to whether or not they've seen it live is retarded.

How you seem to think that going to events on the other side of the world makes you a "bigger" F1 fan is... well, LOL... but in your case;

Congratulations on spending a fortune on the most boring race in history.

Haha, Jesus, you've obviously hit that time of the month. I quoted someone else and wrote my post starting about them being quite the F1 fan then moving onto general discussion. This thread isn't all about you!

Whati described was that some people on here act the big fans when all they seem to do is argue on here like annoying little childten in the playground and maybe should have a chillax and (some) who are armchair fans should come and see some of the races across the globe.

You've shown you're true colours here , chill and stop throwing your toys out the pram.

Anyway, the weekend was amazing and the race was epic, you really have no idea how good a race Singapore is to attend....... Now my being here vs armchair comment is perfectly relevant to you.

 

[Skeeter]

And an interesting rumour. Kimi will be in Korea in an observer role only. Could be out for the rest of the season due to back injury.

Sounds like a convenient excuse for Lotus to get out of paying him.

Who would take his spot? I assume Valsechi?

 

[this_is_gav]

Not entirely convinced that should Kimi miss races it's down to the back injury, as he said he was OK after Singapore, and while I'm sure painkillers helped no end, he couldn't have had that bad a reaction after Saturday night, otherwise they wouldn't have let him race on Sunday, so I'm guessing there wasn't too much of an issue after Sunday night either.

Still, back injuries can be fickle, so perhaps it has worsened since the weekend, or he's undergoing surgery.

Who would take his spot? I assume Valsechi?

A bit silly-season, but how long before someone suggests that if Lotus are truly interested in Hulkenberg for next season, that that move is brought forward. On paper it suits all parties - Lotus get their driver, Hulkenberg gets his seat, both settle before the 2014 season testing, and Sauber have to catch up on several fewer Hulkenberg payments - but it's never going to happen.

Drivers moving mid-season just doesn't happen any more, as they're so dialled into their cars and the field so close that it's difficult to jump to a stronger team and not be further back than you were. The late 2000s Ferraris were notoriously difficult to drive, you need to look no further than Fisichella in 2009 to see how badly a move can go (though you could argue Fisichella wasn't interested in the leap of performance as much as the final chance to drive for his beloved Ferrari, and while he perhaps had an outside shot at the win at Monza had he stayed at Force India, I couldn't blame to the bloke for jumping ship).

 

[Guerrilla]

Would be shame to go from Raikkonen to Valsecchi from Lotus' point of view, quite the difference in results I'd imagine.

Think Lotus still have d'Ambrosio on their books too.

...and there's always Nick Heidfeld... he's steady at least