Singapore Grand Prix 2014, Singapore - Race 14/19

numerous doesn't mean the number one, it means more than one, and it's been ONCE.

Hamilton has been punished by a safety car TWICE, Rosberg gained on Hamilton through a safety car which gave him a huge advantage, he wasted it. Today Hamilton had another safety car put him in a weak position and still won.

Also Rosberg has purposefully hit hamilton off(and been fined for it by his team who absolutely know who was guilty of what) and he cheated at Monaco. He also cheated a couple of times in Canada, cutting the corner and flooring it and pushing Hamilton off the track in the first corner. Hamilton ate him alive for pace throughout, Hamilton was making the tires last better, was using less fuel and gaining on him.

In their DNF's Hamilton was ahead in two of them and gaining rapidly in Canada. They were most likely 3 wins meaning Rosberg gained 32 points a pop, or 96 points total, though Rosberg only finished second in Canada so lets say Hamilton lost 18 points for second and Rosberg moved up getting 3 more points so 21 points. So Rosberg gained at least 85 points from Hamilton DNF's.

In Rosberg's two DNF's he was ahead in one and behind in the other so you could consider that a 32 point gain for Hamilton in one and a 18 point gain today for 50 points total and a 35 point difference. But in GB Hamilton started 6th, passed 4 cars and was closing in on Rosberg fast before he had an issue. The reality is he was most likely to win it anyway making it two 18 point losses, 36 points and 49 points total that Rosberg has gained when factoring in both of their DNF's.


Hamilton has had more bad luck, his DNF's have cost him more points than Rosberg's have, he's had two qualification failures causing him starts in 20th and 22nd which have certainly cost him more points as well, he also hasn't cheated at least three times season.

There is no comparison in regards to who had the worst luck.
That sums it up more than nicely :)

Even though I think Rosberg is a cheating little weasel, I still would have preferred a straight fight between the two. Let's hope now that from here on in there will be zero retirements from either of the Mercs and the fastest man wins.
 
Great drive by Hamilton. If you take everything in to account this weekend...
- reduced radio feedback
- damaging hot environment
- no comparison available with the other car
...he did phenominally well to drive the **** off the car to build up the gap needed to come back out near the front after his pit stop. That's also testament to the quality and power of the car, but all the same, great drive.

Pity about Button - he drove a good race and his position would have been well-deserved if the car had held together until the end.
 
I didn't think it was a great drive tbh, it was just one you expect from a top 1-5 driver in the best car by a country mile. Had this been vettel over the last 4 years everyone would be saying that. This car has the biggest advantage since 93, all Hamilton had to do was manage a gap which is what he was doing nicely and saving the car. If they actually went for it I dread to think how far in front that car could finish. The race for Hamilton was over when Rosberg broke, even then all he would have had to do was manage the gap if there was no problems Rosberg wouldn't have troubled him.

Hard to see any way back for rosberg now, I don't see him building up a lead any time soon without a disasterous run of luck by hamilton side of the garage.
 
I am still surprised by the pace of the merc when turned all the way up. Many seconds a lap ahead of the rest. If merc can turn their engine up at all times next season, the rest aren't going to catch up.

I feel sorry for button, so close to the end. McLaren have a lot to do.
 
I am still surprised by the pace of the merc when turned all the way up. Many seconds a lap ahead of the rest. If merc can turn their engine up at all times next season, the rest aren't going to catch up.

I feel sorry for button, so close to the end. McLaren have a lot to do.

Let's be fair - the Mercedes is not seconds ahead, and certainly not on a track such as Singapore (indeed the gap was a couple of tenths generally). Red Bull and Ferrari were trying to make their tyres last until the end, so were intentionally driving slower through the corners in order to stretch them out.

Hamilton would likely have been the same if he'd gone for softs at the 2nd stop, but he was forced into making the extra stop as he hadn't used the softs up until that point.
 
numerous doesn't mean the number one, it means more than one, and it's been ONCE.

Hamilton has been punished by a safety car TWICE, Rosberg gained on Hamilton through a safety car which gave him a huge advantage, he wasted it. Today Hamilton had another safety car put him in a weak position and still won.

Also Rosberg has purposefully hit hamilton off(and been fined for it by his team who absolutely know who was guilty of what) and he cheated at Monaco. He also cheated a couple of times in Canada, cutting the corner and flooring it and pushing Hamilton off the track in the first corner. Hamilton ate him alive for pace throughout, Hamilton was making the tires last better, was using less fuel and gaining on him.

In their DNF's Hamilton was ahead in two of them and gaining rapidly in Canada. They were most likely 3 wins meaning Rosberg gained 32 points a pop, or 96 points total, though Rosberg only finished second in Canada so lets say Hamilton lost 18 points for second and Rosberg moved up getting 3 more points so 21 points. So Rosberg gained at least 85 points from Hamilton DNF's.

In Rosberg's two DNF's he was ahead in one and behind in the other so you could consider that a 32 point gain for Hamilton in one and a 18 point gain today for 50 points total and a 35 point difference. But in GB Hamilton started 6th, passed 4 cars and was closing in on Rosberg fast before he had an issue. The reality is he was most likely to win it anyway making it two 18 point losses, 36 points and 49 points total that Rosberg has gained when factoring in both of their DNF's.


Hamilton has had more bad luck, his DNF's have cost him more points than Rosberg's have, he's had two qualification failures causing him starts in 20th and 22nd which have certainly cost him more points as well, he also hasn't cheated at least three times season.

There is no comparison in regards to who had the worst luck.

If I could like a post on here I'd do this one. It's really amazing how this season is being touted as a close battle when in reality it's a one horse race.

So much luck going in one direction, with regard to both reliability and punishments for his cheating. Today's DNF was a little bit of karma though.
 
Let's be fair - the Mercedes is not seconds ahead, and certainly not on a track such as Singapore (indeed the gap was a couple of tenths generally). .

Not round singapore no, I don't think it was seconds but then I think Mercedes are just doing a good job as Red Bull did when only one car was racing of just managing the pace and looking after the car.

The biggest shame is we didn't get to either see the two Merc drivers race each other to see how far ahead they could push when having to race each other and also that they couldn't have fixed Rosberg to have him battle from the back with a fixed car. It would have added something to the race seeing if he could actually make his way through.
 
Go back through time and tell me the occasions where one driver hasn't had more luck than a team-mate or rival.

We've become so used to the bullet-proof reliability of the past 10 years or so due to the stability in the regulations (mechanically) that it's hardly a surprise that now they've all developed complex power units we'll have varying degrees of reliability, and it's unlikely the problems one driver suffers from will be exactly replicated by his team mate (Montreal being the one exception this year).

If we were to replicate this season and develop entirely new solutions every year for the next 10 years you might begin to have enough data to make averages worthy of working out, but in a single season of 20 races it's pointless.

Now it's pretty much all square on points it's essentially a 5 race season (as I believe Hamilton said yesterday) so it would be a shame if we've further reliability issues from now. While Hamilton has been the better thus far, let's just treat it like the NASCAR-style chase, hit the reset button and enjoy a championship starting now.
 
I must admit I did LOL when I saw Jenson's steering wheel reboot (not because it was Jenson, smr :p).

It goes to show you how much technology keeps the car "alive", and it just seems like one electronic glitch (particularly on the wheel) can put you out of the race, which is crazy. I laughed mainly at Brundle's comment "The wheel is showing Jenson the brochure".

I'd like to see a close fought battle for the WDC. I'd hate for a safety car or reliability or even engine penalties cost Rosberg or Hamilton a fair chance to prove themselves.
 
you forgot rosberg getting punished by the safety car on numerous occasions like this one

I only included car failures and crashes Rosberg and Hamilton were directly involved in in my list but you're right, it would have been worth adding who benefited/lost out from the safety car. drunkenmaster seems to have covered that pretty thoroughly already though :)
 
Let's be fair - the Mercedes is not seconds ahead, and certainly not on a track such as Singapore (indeed the gap was a couple of tenths generally). Red Bull and Ferrari were trying to make their tyres last until the end, so were intentionally driving slower through the corners in order to stretch them out.

Hamilton would likely have been the same if he'd gone for softs at the 2nd stop, but he was forced into making the extra stop as he hadn't used the softs up until that point.

Exactly, I wish people would realise that tires/fuel is still the limit. People using their pace and different times and strategies doesn't make one car really that much faster.

The pace was dictated by Vettel and Riccy stopping early and having to go 30 laps. You don't go normal pace for 30 laps, you have to manage the tires so you start on a slow pace and end up very slow at the end. hamilton was banging around as fast as possible because he had to and because he was purposefully using his tires up. It's likely that if ALonso could have gotten past the red bulls then he'd have been faster, able to push his slightly newer tires harder and Hamilton, should probably still have got him on the new tires at the end but it would have been closer.

I can't remember exactly which Canada race it was, guessing 2012, Hamilton out in the front but wanting a tire stop, ALonso and Vettel behind, Hamilton stops the other two don't. Hamilton they destroyed them for pace on fresh tires, think he was taking 3-4 seconds a lap out of them and was way ahead at the end. Then they lost places to guys who had been miles back, had they pitted they would have stayed in 2nd/3rd place and instead one or both of them lost a couple of places. Was the Merc 3-5 seconds a lap faster than the Red Bull that year, not a chance, poor strategy created a massive difference in pace.

Was it Bahrain with the safety car when Hamilton/Rosberg fighting each other hard were 1-1.5seconds faster a lap in the final stint, that is a much fairer comparison of pace as most were on the same relative strategy in terms of tire life.

Red bull HAVE had that gap over teams at several stages and for an entire season over the past 4 years. Mostly it's softer tires and lack of pressure from a competent team mate that didn't show that pace.

In literally dozens of races now Vettel cruised away at 1-1.5seconds a lap, the difference is he'd stop with a 5-10 second gap and protect the car, not waste tires of fuel and leave himself options for safety cars. The big difference here is that After pulling out a gap Vettel was under no pressure so pulled back the pace because Webber couldn't stay in touch with him. When Hamilton or Rosberg does it, the other car is pushing them so they can't just cruise out a decent gap and stop... because then the guy behind would pass them.

Today Hamilton did cruise out to a 5-10 second gap, then backed off, same thing Vettel had done for years.
 
Go back through time and tell me the occasions where one driver hasn't had more luck than a team-mate or rival..

I know, never in a season on here have I heard so many people obsessed with 1 driver being a DNF or two behind. Yet for some on here it seems to be the main focus of the races. No one cares that Kimi had worse reliability in one season to his title rival and so on. I think maybe people are exaggerating it because they are team mates. No one cares about it a year or so down the line. No one says Damon didn't deserve his F1 title because he had more luck that Jacques over the season and Jacques was a rookie.

As you say it's nothing new, no one calls Alonso the real champion against Vettel because he had worse car luck. It's just the nature of a the sport. A sport where far too much emphasis is on the drivers title and too little on the constructors.
 
And it starts...

McLaren F1 team questions coded radio messages from Red Bull

McLaren believes that Formula 1 rival Red Bull used coded radio messages during the Singapore Grand Prix to help Daniel Ricciardo finish on the podium.

The use of team radio to help a drivers' performance was outlawed ahead of the Singapore GP, although advice to help the technical performance or for reliability reasons is still allowed.

McLaren racing director Eric Boullier suggests, however, that Red Bull took things close to the limit with some of its messages to Ricciardo as he suffered battery problems.

F1 teams were explicitly told that instructions relating to contact with kerbs was not allowed, but Red Bull was heard telling Ricciardo: "Avoiding exit kerbs may help the problem with the car."

Speaking about how different dealing with the race from the pit wall was now with the new radio limits, Boullier said: "Nothing, but it makes us more busy listening to the others to see they are not doing anything like Red Bull did twice on Ricciardo.

"I think it was coded, yes. It is up to the FIA to investigate, so it is not for me to say anything.

"But it was a strange message. Once would have been OK, but twice or three times is a bit strange."

Red Bull boss Christian Horner insists, however, that his team had clarified with F1 race director Charlie Whiting whether or not it would be allowed to give the instructions to Ricciardo.

"Obviously we spoke to Charlie and told him Daniel had some reliability issues," he said.

"That was why he was told to stay off the kerbs, because that was causing damage to the battery.

"I think that was sensible and it's about trying to find a balance with this radio ban"

"Sir, Sir! They are breaking the rules Sir, and its not fair!"

:rolleyes:

Although I'm surprised only one team has complained so far. Maybe they haven't all had time to check all the transcripts.
 
And it starts...

McLaren F1 team questions coded radio messages from Red Bull



"Sir, Sir! They are breaking the rules Sir, and its not fair!"

:rolleyes:

Although I'm surprised only one team has complained so far. Maybe they haven't all had time to check all the transcripts.

To be fair the more people that do it the better, the faster it get's dropped the better. At least until the come up with some decent rules and regulations :)
 
Seems a bit petty when you have people trying to get others into trouble, even more so when it seems like you're only doing it because you had a bad race yourself. It's not like these two are rivals.
 
Until they have a 20" screen on the steering wheel, with all the info they need on it. The rule Sucks..

It's a stupid rule and thought it was coded when I heard it, I however also thought nothing would happen as reliability is allowed on radio. And kerbs where having issues, look at JB as well which seemed to be caused by the kerb.
 
Good news: Lewis leads the WDC again.

Bad news: resurgence of Das Fingerreich (although I'll let him have this one as he showed a sense of humour before the race, I don't want it to be a regular thing); Maldonado missing out on a point he'd earned; likewise Button's retirement; Kevin Magnussen suffering burns to his back.
 
Has anything more been said about the water bottles being so ****?

I know in previous years we have had the odd driver report them not working, but for several drivers to report that their water was too hot to drink sounds pretty dangerous to me.

If the drivers are running under weight to keep the car light, then driving for two hours without water could potentially cause an accident through loss of concentration.
 
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