SLI/CF is microstutter an issue for you?

Rusty0611 · 26 Mar 2013 at 13:02

Wanting to borrow Tommy's eyes for frame time analysis.

LtMatt · 26 Mar 2013 at 13:19

Locky said:
They don't like it and will shot it down as it tells the real truth on how your game is performing, if your game is running crap and a stuttery mess, this will tell you that

I have seen spikes on games that felt 100% smooth and show no sign of micro stutter though.

I pulled the explanation bit if people can't be bothered to read the whole thing.

The problem here is not in using FRAPS to measure average framerates over the run of a benchmark, but rather when it comes to using FRAPS to measure individual frames. FRAPS is at the very start of the rendering pipeline; it’s before the GPU, it’s before the drivers, it’s even before Direct3D and the context queue. As such FRAPS can tell you all about what goes into the rendering pipeline, but FRAPS cannot tell you what comes out of the rendering pipeline.

So to use FRAPS in this method as a way of measuring frame intervals is problematic. Considering in particular that the application can only pass off a new frame when the context queue is ready for it, what FRAPS is actually measuring is the very start of the rendering pipeline, which not unlike a true pipe is limited by what comes after it. If the pipeline is backed up for whatever reason (context queue, drivers, etc), then FRAPS is essentially reporting on what the pipeline is doing, and not the frame interval on the final displayed frames. Simply put, FRAPS cannot tell you the frame interval at the end of the pipeline, it can only infer it from what it’s seeing.

AMD’s problem then is twofold. Going back to our definitions of latency versus frame intervals, FRAPS cannot measure “latency”. The context queue in particular will throw off any attempt to measure true frame latency. The amount of time between present calls is not the amount of time it took a frame to move through the pipeline, especially if the next Present call was delayed for any reason.

AMD’s second problem then is that even when FRAPS is being used to measure frame intervals, due to the issued we’ve mentioned earlier it’s simply not an accurate representation of what the user is seeing. Not only can FRAPS sometimes encounter anomalies that don’t translate to the end of the rendering pipeline, but FRAPS is going to see stuttering that the user cannot. It’s this last bit that is of particular concern to AMD. If FRAPS is saying that AMD cards are having more stuttering – even if the user cannot see it – then are AMD cards worse?"

flopper · 26 Mar 2013 at 13:32

the anandtech article is excellent.
In July you have more options in driver for multi gpu and they are on it.
new managment helps.

oh and fraps shouldnt be used to view framespike.

LtMatt · 26 Mar 2013 at 13:35

flopper said:
the anandtech article is excellent.
In July you have more options in driver for multi gpu and they are on it.
new managment helps.

This.

Anand are becoming one of my favourite sites at the moment.

Locky · 26 Mar 2013 at 15:40

I'm not taking about the spikes.

LtMatt · 26 Mar 2013 at 15:45

Locky said:
I'm not taking about the spikes.

If your game is stuttering though Locky you can tell. You don't need fraps to tell you if a game is smooth.

LtMatt · 26 Mar 2013 at 15:47

Ignore double post.

Suarez7 · 26 Mar 2013 at 15:49

I'm getting stuttering in BF3 on my 680, very noticeable at the start of rounds, only happens on the newer drivers, 306 were fine and also the quadro drivers are fine. People reporting similar to me over on guru3d forums.

Locky · 26 Mar 2013 at 15:51

LtMatt said:
If your game is stuttering though Locky you can tell. You don't need fraps to tell you if a game is smooth.

yeah I know that lol

but fraps just confirms it and you can use to base an improvement from.

LtMatt · 26 Mar 2013 at 15:58

Locky said:
yeah I know that lol

but fraps just confirms it and you can use to base an improvement from.

I agree.

But i also want to know why some games play as smooth as silk but still you see high latency according to fraps and that is because its not a completely accurate way that it reads latency. The Anand article says the same thing. However if the game you're playing has severe stutter then yes fraps will pick up on that.

V3teran · 27 Mar 2013 at 08:08

Kaapstad said:
+1

Two work very well together.

Thats bad advice in 2013......

Waste of time buying 2x690's for the simple fact that thre gimped by 2GB Vram limit so anygame that you play will only have 2GB of ram available therefore limiting the excellent performance of the card regarding its core and shaders.

OP dont waste your money on 2x690's stick with 1 and wait for a more worthwhile upgrade to come along.

I also had 2x690's when they came out, Waste of money cause of the Vram limit.

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Yaayuh! · 27 Mar 2013 at 08:23

V3teran said:
Thats bad advice in 2013......

Waste of time buying 2x690's for the simple fact that thre gimped by 2GB Vram limit so anygame that you play will only have 2GB of ram available therefore limiting the excellent performance of the card regarding its core and shaders.

OP dont waste your money on 2x690's stick with 1 and wait for a more worthwhile upgrade to come along.

I also had 2x690's when they came out, Waste of money cause of the Vram limit.

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I was actually considering 2xGTX690, will look for another in a few months time.
Mainly because the 2Gb is more than enough for me @ 1920x1080 and has been proven on here quite a few times. I do not consider it a waste of money, they're great cards and run very well in SLI, surprisingly well in fact.

Also, i am not the OP of this thread. Please, if you're not aware of my situation or what's been talked about regarding VRAM here, at least read the thread before running your mouth.

Kaapstad · 27 Mar 2013 at 08:51

V3teran said:
OP dont waste your money on 2x690's stick with 1 and wait for a more worthwhile upgrade to come along.

I also had 2x690's when they came out, Waste of money cause of the Vram limit.

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I have got what you would consider a worthwhile upgrade (4 Titans) but for 24/7 use I prefer the GTX 690s.

Also up to 1600p 2gbs of vram is fine.

LtMatt · 27 Mar 2013 at 09:29

Kaapstad said:
I have got what you would consider a worthwhile upgrade (4 Titans) but for 24/7 use I prefer the GTX 690s.

Kaapstad · 27 Mar 2013 at 09:32

LtMatt said:

They are very quiet and smooth when working.

I do like the Titans though and have promised myself some serious gaming the next time I am off work.

Gregster · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:55

V3teran said:
Thats bad advice in 2013......

Waste of time buying 2x690's for the simple fact that thre gimped by 2GB Vram limit so anygame that you play will only have 2GB of ram available therefore limiting the excellent performance of the card regarding its core and shaders.

OP dont waste your money on 2x690's stick with 1 and wait for a more worthwhile upgrade to come along.

I also had 2x690's when they came out, Waste of money cause of the Vram limit.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Firstly,I am the OP and this thread is about showing your CF/SLI frame times.

Secondly, can you show me where 2GB isn't enough? You are quick to state it and yet show no where this to be true. Show it or keep quiet.

@ Rossi, pay no attention mate and VRAM will only be an issue if you go with super size resolutions of 5760x1080 and above.

V3teran · 27 Mar 2013 at 17:20

If you use Nvidia inspector and turn your 8xMSAA+SGSSAA on 99% of games you will run out of vram i guarantee it, go check for yourselves.

Even on 4xMSAA your going ot be hitting a Vram bottleneck at resolutions over 1920*1200.
Even playing old games like L4D2 with the above settings hits the Vram wall.

Then there is downsampling which eats up even more Vram.

Then there is the new consoles looming over the horizon where 2GB of Vram not be enough.

So buying a 2nd 690 now stands as a bad choice and bad advice to give to somebody.

Plenty of examples in this thread of 690 hitting vram limit early on.....
http://www.overclock.net/t/1249960/official-nvidia-gtx-690-owners-club

Gregster why are your barking? Calm down, Im giving good truthful advice here.

Suarez7 · 27 Mar 2013 at 17:23

Who on earth runs games with 8xMSAA+SGSSAA, it might push vram above 2gb but it's a sure fine way to gimp your fps to unplayable levels especially on super high resolutions.

Rusty0611 · 27 Mar 2013 at 17:26

V3teran said:
If you use Nvidia inspector and turn your 8xMSAA+SGSSAA on 99% of games you will run out of vram i guarantee it, go check for yourselves.

Even on 4xMSAA your going ot be hitting a Vram bottleneck at resolutions over 1920*1200.
Even playing old games like L4D2 with the above settings hits the Vram wall.

Then there is downsampling which eats up even more Vram.

Then there is the new consoles looming over the horizon where 2GB of Vram not be enough.

So buying a 2nd 690 now stands as a bad choice and bad advice to give to somebody.

Plenty of examples in this thread of 690 hitting vram limit early on.....
http://www.overclock.net/t/1249960/official-nvidia-gtx-690-owners-club

Gregster why are your barking? Calm down, Im giving good truthful advice here.

No, no and no.

While I agree that I wouldn't personally get two 690s due to the VRAM issue it doesn't automatically means that 4x MSAA is going to cripple you above 1920 res. In fact, it's been proved numerous times that only on a couple of games do you exceed 2GB.

So while you're saying he's giving bad advice, your advice is based off of bad information.

Kaapstad · 27 Mar 2013 at 17:27

Suarez7 said:
Who on earth runs games with 8xMSAA+SGSSAA, it might push vram above 2gb but it's a sure fine way to gimp your fps to unplayable levels especially on super high resolutions.

+1

Even with 2 GTX 690s maxing all the in game settings @1600p you do not run out of vram, you will run out of GPU muscle first.