Smart Meter - worth changing to?

BigBoy · 15 Jun 2018 at 14:12

You get a FIT rate for the power you do not use, there is no 3p back to you. If your meter is going backwards when you generate you are not storing it on the grid, you have a meter with no back stop.
My guess is the certification date on that meter is mid to late 80's in which case it's probably not been recording properly for a long time anyway. Life span of a mechanical meter is 20years. Meaning the meter most likely will have been under reading (meaning your Kw's have been shorter than they should be the reverse direction of the meter when feeding back will have added to this degradation)

BigBoy · 15 Jun 2018 at 14:16

jpaul said:
they use the same frequencies as bluetooth/wifi https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison and have 10x more powerful transmitter 300m range !
and apparently ping every 8 seconds ... so, if I was using blue-tooth headphones a lot say, I might be concerned

I have very poor 2g network reception (does not work in the house !), I don't know if that precludes a smart meter ?
but, I suspect meter wil communicate via zigbee mesh with other meters that have a better 2g ?

edit - saw some answers

I wear a Bluetooth headset for work all day long and never had an issue yet and my head is literally in the cupboard with the meters....

ZigBee mesh is not permitted in the UK.
The different antenna for SMETS2 are supplier dependant, some will allow external some won't.

ThriceNightly · 15 Jun 2018 at 18:19

rainbowGuy said:
as soon as i posted i saw that but to me it looked like a flat membership, didnt see anything saying its based on usage.. and 8£ is a lot and is more expensive than the current 10-12p standing charge I pay each day.. so I am confused they said they can still save me money when i inputted my usage data :s

Look at bottom of this page to see the monthly energy saving club rates based on useage https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/How-it-works.aspx

Its not to be confused with standing charge.....its simply the monthly fee for providing customer with wholesale energy rates & no standing charge.

Psycho Sonny · 19 Jun 2018 at 09:53

BigBoy said:
You get a FIT rate for the power you do not use, there is no 3p back to you. If your meter is going backwards when you generate you are not storing it on the grid, you have a meter with no back stop.
My guess is the certification date on that meter is mid to late 80's in which case it's probably not been recording properly for a long time anyway. Life span of a mechanical meter is 20years. Meaning the meter most likely will have been under reading (meaning your Kw's have been shorter than they should be the reverse direction of the meter when feeding back will have added to this degradation)

do you even have solar panels? FYI my house was built around 98/99. so it's around 20 years old.

50% of what i generate is assumed as going back to the grid - i get paid by the energy company for this at around like 3p.

100% of what i generate gets FIT from the government.

so you basically get paid 2 times for 50% of whatever you generate once by FIT and the other by the electric company. you then get paid the other 50% by FIT only.

however since my meter goes backwards. i am essentially able to store it on the grid and use it later at it's 13p value to me. i therefore get to use it for free whenever i want. so it's effectively saving me 13p as usually that would be lost. look i'll give you 2 scenarios below.

i generate 300 kwh in a month, however lets say i use 450 kwh. however i only use 200kwh of the solar.

scenario 1 - if i was on a smart meter. i would be selling back 100kwh at 3p then buying 250 kwh at 13p meaning i'm paying 25 quid for the electric in that month

scenario 2 - old meter. i sell back 50% at 3p because they don't know how much i'm using so they estimate it at 50%. so i get paid 3p x 150. however since the meter goes back then forwards. i only need to pay for 150 x 13p. which is 15 quid for the electric that month.

i'm not including FIT in either calculation as it would be the same regardless in both situations.

BigBoy · 19 Jun 2018 at 15:39

As I said your meter goes backwards for a reason, 20yrs old or not the meter is not designed to work that way and will be causing issues.

I know how solar works all I said was there is no "store on the grid" if you were to contact your provider and say my meter is going backwards because of my solar they will insist you have it replaced to the point they can get a court order as you are defrauding them. (By this I mean you are not correctly using the solar/energy system) you should also be giving your provider reading from both your regular meter and your solar meter.

samcat · 19 Jun 2018 at 16:05

Psycho Sonny said:
however since my meter goes backwards. i am essentially able to store it on the grid and use it later at it's 13p value to me. i therefore get to use it for free whenever i want. so it's effectively saving me 13p as usually that would be lost. look i'll give you 2 scenarios below.

Not 'storing' anything... All you are getting is to reuse a unit on the counter that has already been used... So every single unit you generate you get to use. Not supposed to, but you do.

Meters in this country are not intended to go backwards, and the T&C for all suppliers has that you should inform them of this occurring.

You have a choice, either tell the electric supplier that their meter is going backwards, or dont... One is the right thing to do, the other is wrong (effectively stealing from the supplier) and is in breach of the T&C. You dont want to end up on the utilities blacklist!

If you tell them, they will come out pronto and swap it for a newer meter that works correctly.
If you dont tell them and dont change it you will get caught out at some point (person comes to read meter, sees it spinning backwards)
If you dont tell them and request a change to a smart meter they may never know.

As ever, your choice.

glenimp617 · 9 Jul 2018 at 18:38

Just completed my transfer to outfoxthemarket and the first email they send me is for a 6.5% price rise lol

has anyone else had this?

Kimi · 9 Jul 2018 at 21:28

I'm sure smart meters are the Trojan horse to charge us more money for peak times. Everyone wall need on the dual rate soon

jpaul · 9 Jul 2018 at 21:43

Kimi said:
Everyone wall need on the dual rate soon

it can have more granularity than that ... demand charging as discussed in the Uber thread, if you want a cup of tea at half time it will cost more (like the adverts)

In France they have a system we do not have here, where you can get a very cheap tarif BUT there are some pre-notified (sometimes the day before) red days where the units are prohibitively charged.

pinkpound · 21 Jul 2018 at 11:37

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44903471

About sums up the whole smart meter farce

Randomface74 · 21 Jul 2018 at 11:39

Smart meters to cut energy bills by just £11, say MPs

The MPs said the government should now plan for the roll-out to be completed by 2022, and that supply of the new generation of smart meters should be sped up.

Yeah, do the bad thing faster, good one.

jpaul · 21 Jul 2018 at 11:40

the stupid MP's just realised what the public knew.

however recent r4 you and yours programme suggested companies are giving better rates to people with smart meters - bribery - need to check that out

Dyson · 25 Jul 2018 at 20:38

jpaul said:
the stupid MP's just realised what the public knew.

however recent r4 you and yours programme suggested companies are giving better rates to people with smart meters - bribery - need to check that out

Just comparing suppliers and noticed some rates are only available if you sign up to a new meter

Randomface74 · 25 Jul 2018 at 20:47

Shows how desperate they are to get these things in our houses. That's how you can tell it's not in your interests.

BigBoy · 25 Jul 2018 at 21:31

jpaul said:
the stupid MP's just realised what the public knew.

however recent r4 you and yours programme suggested companies are giving better rates to people with smart meters - bribery - need to check that out

How often do you take up a new phone contract without a new phone? better deals go to customers willing to change, not bribery just good business sense.

Dyson said:
Just comparing suppliers and noticed some rates are only available if you sign up to a new meter

see above..

billysielu said:
Shows how desperate they are to get these things in our houses. That's how you can tell it's not in your interests.

The only reason the suppliers are getting desperate is because of the unrealistic targets set out by the government and the fines they will impose if suppliers dont hit them in the time specified. nothing to do with what the company wants. My employer recently got told either pay the fine or make a contribution to a fund because the reports the government had were 6 weeks behind actual figuers and there for we were behind on our meter installing!

Even as a meter installer and someone who is pro smart metering the government farce is just making the job harder and harder. SMETS2 is months away (December is the latest so I'm told) but I can see that being pushed back again and again as the DCC is just not ready, running over budget as usual and wont be able to cope with the work load.

jpaul · 25 Jul 2018 at 21:51

BigBoy said:
How often do you take up a new phone contract without a new phone? better deals go to customers willing to change, not bribery just good business sense.

is it legal ? google searched earlier, and could not find any data

the financial benefit of smart meters were re-assessed too, was it down from £26p/a to £10 ... the government just needs to abandon it, should spend the money on something more beneficial to the economy BB or even 3G coverage, they reversed these home assessment certificates, they messed up the energy refunds......

LeeUK · 25 Jul 2018 at 22:24

pinkpound said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44903471

About sums up the whole smart meter farce

I've been saying this for years.

They wouldn't save me anything on either time or money.

BigBoy · 26 Jul 2018 at 06:54

jpaul said:
is it legal ? google searched earlier, and could not find any data

the financial benefit of smart meters were re-assessed too, was it down from £26p/a to £10 ... the government just needs to abandon it, should spend the money on something more beneficial to the economy BB or even 3G coverage, they reversed these home assessment certificates, they messed up the energy refunds......

There is no law regarding competitive selling.

Also people need to realise smart meters are not designed to save you money, the figures the government keep spewing are all propaganda and speculation.

You want to save money then change to led light bulbs and buy all AAA+ white goods.

jpaul · 26 Jul 2018 at 07:37

BigBoy said:
There is no law regarding competitive selling.

yes ...but - if they are fixing the price between the cartel members , and, poorer folks are unable to access these tarifs because smart+token meters are incompatible ?

BigBoy · 26 Jul 2018 at 07:48

SMETS2 Token meters are already a thing, Rich or poor what difference does it make? If you want a token meter then you need to pay the costs of it via a higher tariff or standing charge, its always been the same even back in the days of coin slot meters.