Smogsy: HZ vs Resolution Thread

[smogsy]

4K 60Hz vs 1440p 144hz vs 1440p Ultrawide 100hz User Experience

Test Setup
5930K at 4.0
16GB DDR4
GTX1080 Founders

Monitors
ASUS PG278Q 1440p 144Hz TN
ASUS PG27AQ 4K 60Hz IPS
ACER X34A 100Hz IPS
All calibrated with ColorMunki Xrite

Games Tested:
Overwatch
Witcher 3
Rocket League
WWE 2K16
Mafia II
American Truck Simulator
Euro Truck Simulator

My Reaction Time: 0.125 seconds [tested in a control environment by DVLA disability assessment centre] reason i bring this up is for the Genji test.

reason for this thread
this thread in not reviewing the Monitors Quality/Price. this is simply giving Real world user experience with side by side testing. of the various types of panels
During this testing Gsync & Fastsync will be used.

Other Notes
This Thread is my personal experiences with having all 3 monitors side by side & switching between them as daily drivers. You have the right
to not Agree with me, These are my personal experiences.

I Am bit like kaapstad in that fact that i keep & love testing Monitors, in the last 2 years ive used 10 different monitors using my own Money.

Other notes: Im a IQ Lover. This was the reason i bought these chasing the IQ race.

General Usage

Asus PG278Q [144Hz]
Their really nothing to say here As a general daily driver this monitor is Great, with no Cons except for not being IPS. Comparing TN vs IPS is night and day with black levels.
its not noticeable when solely using the TN but having IPS right next to it displaying the same content.

Asus PG27AQ 4K [60hz]
As A daily driver I dis like it. Why? 27" 4K general web browsing experience, is terrible on chrome default settings. Its readable but not nice. I have to run 150% or change font to Very Large.
I have 20/20 vision too! Widows experiences can be troublesome too DPI scaling is very hit & miss. Some applications are nice to use some look terribly blurred. Don't get me wrong you can live with or get used to it but it can be very off putting at first.
My Recommendation is to use 30" or higher screen to notice the real detail of 4K & no DPI scaling issues

Acer X34A [1440p Ultrawide]
Their really nothing to say here As a general daily driver this monitor is Great, with no Cons except being so large, 34" CAN require you to move your head side to side when browsing. evem my old
Dell 2913WM can require small move of the head. you will find that when using 29"+ displays you will use chrome/firefox not in full screen mode. The other thing to note is the stand on most ultrawides are large and intrusive
so much so using the standard on a 700mm deep desk requires head movement. this is easily fixed with a monitor arm, giving an extra 3cm in some cases, just something to note for people who do not want to head shift.

Gaming

Asus PG278Q [144Hz]
This Monitor for Gaming is Pretty Epic, The Difference from 60Hz is slaps you in the face. once you go 60hz+ you you wont want to go back, TRUST me i've Tried!.
Ive had this monitor since release & Love it. The only issue i have with this Monitor is now ive seen IPS its hard not to go i wish this was IPS.



Overwatch
with This game Fps Locked at 143FPS, its such a smooth experience. Going from 60Hz to 144Hz is pretty mind boggling.
This Monitor also allows me to pass what i call
The Genji Test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndyaZfj58qA
in real world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyqNhlqWCY

As shown in the video Genji Rushes forward slicing through your body. why does this matter?
This monitor due to the 144hz allows me to dodge this ability as junkrat, using mine to jump him or trap him.
i have a 90% success rate dodging this ability in a real world environment. if you are competitive gamer then this of course matters to you. those few milliseconds count.




General Gaming [other games]
No issues to be concerned about, of course you need a good GPU to push Decent frames to the monitor to take the best advtanage of 144Hz

Asus PG27AQ 4K [60hz]
This Monitor For Visuals are Draw dropping. Imagine a TV with sharpness cranked to Max, but its real detail thats 4K @ 27"
Going from 144hz to 60Hz is instantly noticeable, however after an hour or two you get used to the difference.
what you will find is you most likely need to modify
Mouse sensitivity/DPI

Overwatch
Running this game at 60FPS on 60Hz is TERRIBLE after using 100hz+. the input lag is so noticeable i couldn't play overwatch with it. The visuals are WOO.
However, You crank up the frames to 120FPS & the input lag from the mouse just disappears. you of course wont see all the frames, but the feeling is sooo much better so much so its no problem to use.

The Genji Test
This Monitor fails what i call the the Genji Test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndyaZfj58qA
in real world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyqNhlqWCY

As shown in the video Genji Rushes forward slicing through your body. why does this matter?
This monitor due to the 60hz does not allow me to dodge this ability as junkrat, using mine to jump him or trap him.
i have a 10% success rate dodging this ability in a real world environment. if you are competitive gamer then this of course matters to you. those few milliseconds you dont have count.

Witcher 3
not much to note here, but 4K Max settings, is not going to happen unless you want 40FPS or running Titan/1080Ti Sli to get 60fps and above.
using a gamepad at 50FPS the input lag is not even noticeable. dont worry their.

Rocket League
another controller game, i dont feel the input lag using a Xbox one controller but still 100fps feels better than 60fps.

WWE 2K16
no issues

Mafia II
No issues

American Truck Simulator
even this game struggles at max presets at 4K on a 1080.
Euro Truck Simulator
even this game struggles at max presets at 4K on a 1080.

Acer X34A [1440p Ultrawide]
This Monitor for Gaming is Pretty Epic, The Difference from 60Hz is slaps you in the face. once you go 60hz+ you you wont want to go back, TRUST me i've Tried!. However going from 144Hz to 100Hz is noticeable.
Not a big issue but you definitely notice, after a few hours it becomes normal though.
To me 21:9 is Like running Linux, When it works its Amazing!, but when it doesn't its just a pain in the ... you need to fiddle just to play a game half decently. its so bad their are programs & websites made to help you fix games
Their are also modfied exe's by modders, which can be a huge secruity concern. In my eyes i don't want to fiddle & will not fiddle just to play a game.

Some developers are better than others, but expect a decent amount of games to have issues. Even from AAA developers. especially if you play a lot of older games.
these include no Support to HUD/UI issues or cut scene issues.

Overwatch
What a terrible experience overwatch is on 21:9. you ACTUALLY lose FOV. see here > http://www.pcgamer.com/overwatchs-new-219-support-actually-reduces-field-of-view/
the real problem is you cannot fix it either.
Run 21:9 zoomed in which makes me feel dizzy
OR
You run in 16:9 mode in border less window mode having huge black bars that are size your hands
OR
You run in full widowed mode.
OR
if you run 16:9 full screen mode it stretches the image
OR
you set GPU scaling to no in Nvidia Panel
this allow you to run Full screen 16:9 with black bars + input lag

both of which increases Input Lag see below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc28SH2ESA4

The Genji Test using 21:9 3440x1440
This Monitor fails what i call the the Genji Test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndyaZfj58qA
in real world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyqNhlqWCY

As shown in the video Genji Rushes forward slicing through your body. why does this matter?
This monitor due to the 100hz does allow me to dodge this ability as junkrat, using mine to jump him or trap him.
i have a 50% success rate dodging this ability in a real world environment. if you are competitive gamer then this of course matters to you. those few milliseconds you dont have count.

Overwatch is so bad on 21:9 ive moved to 16:9 monitors


Witcher 3
THis Game is Amazing & beautiful in 21:9 3440x1440 running at 100hz is very smooth experience. HOWEVER Cut scenes are broken and run in 16:9 Mode. Which can break immersion,
Their is a Modified Exe to Fix this by Modders, However im not running Modified Exe's on my PC the security risk it implicates is to large.


Rocket League
A great experience

WWE 2K16
doesnt work 16:9 only even though it says the resolution is 3440x1440

Mafia II
Works

American Truck Simulator
Works, this is epic on 21:9 you can see SOO much more you can see out of each side window!
Euro Truck Simulator
Works, this is epic on 21:9 you can see SOO much more you can see out of each side window!

conclusion
im going to sum up my thoughts on using these as daily drivers;
their all good in their own right & nothing is wrong. However if i did this all again.
I would not buy 4K 27" again & at this time i would not buy 3440x1440 again.

21:9 is in its infancy, some may i argue its ready. Its not. its much better than a few years ago when i was rocking a 2913WM. However its not their yet.
Its as i say its like Linux, It great for most of your tasks but it doesn't just work. in a few years time when engines have native support for 21:9 then it will be the must have. but right now, the constant fiddling and hoping for 21:9 support is just not what i want to do.
the other issue is if you play a lot of older games this annoyance will come up time & time Again. (Eg Watchdogs V1) this will be reduced in time as your old games become ancient rather than old.

A few questions to help you in your choice:
Are you ultra competitive gamer?, your only choice to me is 144hz 1080/1440 Monitor
Do you not want to fiddle to get your monitor to work correctly? Don't pick 21:9


4K 60hz (27"):
I love it & i hate it
For gaming its epic, but be ready to constantly upgrade your GPU for max settings, im talking every 8 months or more!
Be aware on some games higher than 60fps may be required for you not experience input lag
be aware head shots will be harder
Be aware that at 27" Font is tiny. i would say close to usable without DPI scaling or bigger fonts in browsers.
I would say its great for casual games, no way very competitive games
WoW,ETS2,Rocket League,Casual Over watch Sure!. CS:S No...


Would i buy it again?
No, knowing what i know now even though im a IQ junkie i would wait for 4K 100Hz or more/HDR


Acer X34A
I love it & Hate it.
Gaming its amazing browsing its amazing, But the constant fiddling to get some games to run nicely (mainly older games) is just annoying.
However when it works its An EPIC experience.
be aware that you need a deep desk or monitor stand to sit far enough back
be aware your might need to move your head when gaming (bad for FPS) if your to close
I would say its great for casual games & competitive, but your mileage may vary as a few competitive games restrict 21:9.
Its the perfect Gamepad Monitor, & K+M, but more Game pad, further to sit back etc.


Would buy it again
No, & yes... knowing what i know now even though its a tough decision but i would say No. due to the fiddling required to play games & hoping for 21:9 support.
In 2-3 years i can see this being the staple Gaming monitor choice, but right now its a Lovely change


Acer PG278Q
I love it I love.
Gaming its amazing browsing its amazing, theirs no downside, except i would not but it again.
i would buy its bigger brother https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...descreen-led-monitor-black-red-mo-088-as.html
due to IPS support
perfect for all types of games.


Would i buy it again?
Yes, but most likely https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...descreen-led-monitor-black-red-mo-088-as.html

my monitor setup is as follows:
Main
1440p 144hz
Secondary
21:9

 

[andybird123]

Just one thing, i have a PG278Q and an IPS monitor and they both have pros and cons - adjusting the gamma in nvidia control panel goes a long way to sorting out the black level issue

 

[smogsy]

^ Mines calibrated with a hardware calibrator, but put it next to an IPS calibrated theirs 0 match. IPS kicks its ass.

 

[Ayahuasca]

IPS destroys TN for black levels and colours.

Haven't used 4k but I went from a PG278Q to a PG348Q and pretty much everything has been an improvement, I don't play many older games and so far everything I've tried has ran 3440x1440 100hz just fine at 21:9. I don't play CS:GO anymore but I imagine the older PG278Q swift would be better for this.

 

[Rroff]

Similarish conclusions to my own - 4K 60Hz great and all but personally not only did I find the 60Hz less than ideal I could never find a mouse sensitivity/DPI I was happy with for a lot of stuff. Won't be going back to 4K in a hurry even 100+Hz especially not under about 40" or so.

I have the Dell s2716dg next to a Dell U2913WM which is one of the better IPS panels and is very decent calibrated and with some tweaking I can get the TN close - obviously doesn't have the viewing angles or the deep saturation of colour but otherwise very close - like you I found 21:9 great but just don't feel its quite there yet and personally overall I find 16:9 1440p the most balanced without having too many too great a compromise in any one way.

 

[andybird123]

^ Mines calibrated with a hardware calibrator, but put it next to an IPS calibrated theirs 0 match. IPS kicks its ass.

And does the hardware calibrator adjust gamma? Just there is no setting for it on the monitor so it would have to be done via nvidia control panel which i dont know of any calibrator that does that

IPS destroys TN for black levels and colours.

everyone who loves IPS says this, but I've had several IPS monitors and they've all suffered with black light bleed, which for how I mainly use my monitor at night or with the curtains closed in the day, the PG278Q looks better in terms of viewing dark content

the difference between the blackest black and lightest bright colours it can show might be "better" on IPS, but for viewing dark games and content in a dark room it is far from optimal

 

[smogsy]

when calibrating you set the gamma you wish. it then adjusts the profile depending on the gamma you wish

 

[andybird123]

when calibrating you set the gamma you wish. it then adjusts the profile depending on the gamma you wish

if you set it manually then how is that calibrated, seems like an oxymoron? what did you adjust it to? I find I have to set it to about 20% lower than stock to get it to look right to me - don't know why its so overblown out of the box

 

[smogsy]

no you set it in the hardware calibrator software you choose your gamma profile

 

[Rroff]

if you set it manually then how is that calibrated, seems like an oxymoron? what did you adjust it to? I find I have to set it to about 20% lower than stock to get it to look right to me - don't know why its so overblown out of the box

You set your target gamma the software then tries to adjust settings to get there - but I've not found you get good results with the Dell and Asus 144Hz TN panel that way compared to manually tweaking the gamma in the nVidia control panel - sadly you will probably get some small amount of black crush to get the rest looking ideal but its only a small amount.

Overall though if extremes of colour accuracy and reproduction are required then you want a different panel - with a bit of tweaking you can get a reasonably natural, colourful display - I found someone else's settings actually made the colours "pop" more on my Dell despite being slightly less accurate than my tweaks and that overall was better for gaming and other entertainment use.

 

[nashathedog]

I went from a 27" 60hz 1080p monitor to a 35" 144hz 2560x1080 monitor and thought the resolution wasn't very good, which is odd seeing as it's the same height on both at 1080, I ended up on on a 34" 75hz 3440x1440 monitor and I've found the drop in refresh rate is a lot less noticed that the increase in resolution. Of the two I'd opt for the high resolution every time, The fact that you are on about a G-sync monitor which is at 100hz would make it a no brainer if it was for me. While both Ulrawides had Freesync the original 60hz 1080p monitor never and whether the additional 15hz my current monitor has makes a difference over the original 60 hz monitor is debatable, Even though the experience is a lot nicer that could be due to the adaptive sync tech, as could it being no worse than the 144hz experience..

 

[Nexus18]

Decent write up, couple of things though:

- not all 21.9 monitors stands are bad for the room they take up, acers are by far the worst though (one reason why I avoided picking up the acer), they take up a huge chunk of the depth of a desk but other ones like dell + LG + samsung etc. are very good/minimal

- I haven't got overwatch now but when I played it on the free weekend trial, it worked perfectly fine in fullscreen mode with black bars, check your monitor settings to make sure 1:1 pixel mapping is enabled and then disable this in nvidia control panel and set in game res. to 2560x1440


And this is why I said in the other thread, a lot of this will be very subjective and yes I know this is this just your opinion/experience and all i.e. 21.9. But for myself and most other 21.9 users we don't see the issue with the "fiddling" as it is very quick and easy to get a game that doesn't support 21.9 working very well i.e. generally just have to click one button to apply a profile or/and editing a line or 2 in the config file.

I and most others have to faff about with game settings more often just to get a game running well as well as doing other things to avoid bugs.

For what it's worth, these are all the games that work very well with 21.9 in my experience:

• deus ex mankind divided (no fixes required, cut scenes are 16.9)
• hitman (newest one [no fixes required] and absolution [can't remember if a fix was needed or not])
• watch dogs 2 (no fix required)
• batman akrham series (no fix required)
• far cry primal and 4 (3 required a fix via flawless)
• mafia 2/3 (no fix required)
• BF games (none required, some UI with bf 3 and 4 [only at the end of a round though])
• star wars battlefront (no fixes required)
• division (no fixes required)
• witcher 3 (no fixes required, as you said cut scenes could be fixed though)
• doom (overall no fixes required although some of the gun models were 16.9 stretched, flawless widescreen fixed this)
• dying light (no fixes required)
• quantom break (no fixes required)
• gta 5 (no fixes required)
• tomb raider games (no fixes required)
• assassins creed (only played syndicate on my 21.9 monitor but nothing was required)
• fallout 4 (required the most faff as in, going to 4 config files and manually changing res. + adding mods)
• ghost recon wildlands (no fixes required)
• mad max (no fixes required)
• middle earth shadow of mordor (flawless widescreen required)
• ori and the blind forest (no fixes required)
• ryse son of rome (no fixes required, you could use flawless widescreen to get the HUD in 21.9 position though)

For a better summary of games etc. Look at the likes of this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1625842/...y-support-summary-in-57-games-i-played-tested

Although some of that stuff is a bit wrong i.e. deus ex mankind divided UI works great for 21.9 now.

And youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxfsK33BWlxHgglWl9LTAYA

Of course, we would all prefer if it games just worked out of the box and I think 21.9 will work like that going forward given its popularity now as well as the last year of titles being very good on the whole, especially from ubisoft. I think pre-rendered cut scenes will always be a problem though, as in stuck in 16.9 mode with black bars, only way to avoid this is to use in game engine for the cut scenes.

everyone who loves IPS says this, but I've had several IPS monitors and they've all suffered with black light bleed, which for how I mainly use my monitor at night or with the curtains closed in the day, the PG278Q looks better in terms of viewing dark content

the difference between the blackest black and lightest bright colours it can show might be "better" on IPS, but for viewing dark games and content in a dark room it is far from optimal

Well if your monitors had back light bleed, you weren't getting the proper experience of IPS in dark content then.... Back light bleed will significantly impact dark content (I have had plenty of IPS monitors ruined because of back light bleed, it is a "fault", not a panel defect of IPS)

Overall IPS is better for dark content as it generally has a higher contrast ratio (good IPS panel can achieve between 1000-1300:1 where as the best TN panels can barely break 900:1) and some IPS panel can achieve a pretty low black depth (although there isn't enough difference to make much of an impact for this)

The only way your experience with IPS and dark content could be explained (ignoring the back light bleed) will be down to IPS glow, by the sounds of it, you like to play in a completely dark environment so IPS glow would ruin the dark content (especially if viewing the screen from an angle) but this is easily solved, use an appropriate brightness setting with some kind of ambient/back lighting to reduce the appearance of IPS glow, although if sitting from extreme angles then don't expect to see much improvement.



Also, reducing gamma is ok but generally most people that mess with this are removing detail in the dark areas just to get a more vibrant/saturated display, a bit like most of the sweetfx configs out there, they completely ruin games as people blow out the details.

 

[andybird123]

You set your target gamma the software then tries to adjust settings to get there - but I've not found you get good results with the Dell and Asus 144Hz TN panel that way compared to manually tweaking the gamma in the nVidia control panel - sadly you will probably get some small amount of black crush to get the rest looking ideal but its only a small amount.

Overall though if extremes of colour accuracy and reproduction are required then you want a different panel - with a bit of tweaking you can get a reasonably natural, colourful display - I found someone else's settings actually made the colours "pop" more on my Dell despite being slightly less accurate than my tweaks and that overall was better for gaming and other entertainment use.

Yeah, that was kinda my point and why I asked if he'd tried adjusting the gamma. "It's calibrated" isnt really an answer, so it sounds like the answer he meant was "no I didnt".

I've seen many many IPS screens and they all have "glow" from the corners in a dark room even TV's, its inherent in IPS. If its really bad then its a fault but i have never seen an IPs screen with 0 bleed at all.

 

[TNA]

So basically, which monitor you get depends on what the individuals needs are and there is no overall best then?

As someone who has been gaming 4K for two and a half years, I agree with what you said about it. If like me you want best graphics in games, not very fps sensitive and do not play competitive fps online, then 4K is a no brainer. But not everyone will fit into that category, that is why some will prefer the ultra-wide option or the 144hz option. Horses for courses!

For me personally with no OLED in sight, I will be looking for an 4K Freesync 2 32" monitor. If not possible, 27" will do.

 

[smogsy]

Decent write up, couple of things though:

- not all 21.9 monitors stands are bad for the room they take up, acers are by far the worst though (one reason why I avoided picking up the acer), they take up a huge chunk of the depth of a desk but other ones like dell + LG + samsung etc. are very good/minimal

- I haven't got overwatch now but when I played it on the free weekend trial, it worked perfectly fine in fullscreen mode with black bars, check your monitor settings to make sure 1:1 pixel mapping is enabled and then disable this in nvidia control panel and set in game res. to 2560x1440

adjusting those settings for over-watch = faffing about. i don't want black bars that's the point. Their worse than using 16:9. anything thats does not work out of box does not go on my computer or adjusted for. can i do it? yes, but i don't want to.
fair point about the monitor stands but i did mention this monitor not any 21:9



Also, reducing gamma is ok but generally most people that mess with this are removing detail in the dark areas just to get a more vibrant/saturated display, a bit like most of the sweetfx configs out there, they completely ruin games as people blow out the details.

Yeah, that was kinda my point and why I asked if he'd tried adjusting the gamma. "It's calibrated" isnt really an answer, so it sounds like the answer he meant was "no I didnt".

I've seen many many IPS screens and they all have "glow" from the corners in a dark room even TV's, its inherent in IPS. If its really bad then its a fault but i have never seen an IPs screen with 0 bleed at all.

+ hardware calibration, you set the monitor to default & the hardware calibrator adjusts the gamma/White balance Automatically based on your choice i can set gamma 2.2/6500K if i want to. (standard) it adjusts what needs to in software/or hardware depending on the monitor you dont need to touch nvidia control panel. it does it for you.

so yes the Gamma is set

 

[andybird123]

+ hardware calibration, you set the monitor to default & the hardware calibrator adjusts the gamma/White balance Automatically based on your choice i can set gamma 2.2/6500K if i want to. (standard) it adjusts what needs to in software/or hardware depending on the monitor you dont need to touch nvidia control panel. it does it for you.

so yes the Gamma is set

Right, so its set to 2.2 based on what you've read on the internet is "PC standard", not actually on what works best for the hardware at hand... depending on what you read 1.8 and 2.4 are also "standard".

I asked if you'd tried adjusting it.

 

[Nexus18]

Yeah, that was kinda my point and why I asked if he'd tried adjusting the gamma. "It's calibrated" isnt really an answer, so it sounds like the answer he meant was "no I didnt".

I've seen many many IPS screens and they all have "glow" from the corners in a dark room even TV's, its inherent in IPS. If its really bad then its a fault but i have never seen an IPs screen with 0 bleed at all.

My dell 2209WA, U2311H (2 of these) and LG 29um65 have zero bleed (my 29um65 left side is quite bad for IPS glow compared to the right side but my first 2 LG 29um65 had awful bleed) but "overall", the lg 29um65 has significantly less IPS glow than the previous dell monitors.

How far do you sit back from the TVs/monitors?




Out of curiosity, @ everyone........ how does this look on your monitors? What can you see and what can't you see?

So basically, which monitor you get depends on what the individuals needs are and there is no overall best then?

For me personally with no OLED in sight, I will be looking for an 4K Freesync 2 32" monitor. If not possible, 27" will do.

Shock horror!

OLED will be the final nail in the coffin for LCD

 

[Wrinkly]

Just wondering if the wide monitors such as 3440x1440 have a full screen mode of 1440p without stretching? Bad omission if they don't.

 

[Nexus18]

Just wondering if the wide monitors such as 3440x1440 have a full screen mode of 1440p without stretching? Bad omission if they don't.

They do.

Enable 1:1 pixel mapping on the monitor OSD and set the in game res. to 2560x1440, you are getting the 27" 1440 16.9 experience then.

 

[nashathedog]

Out of curiosity, @ everyone........ how does this look on your monitors? What can you see and what can't you see?

Spoiler

It looks like a man with goggles who has his right hand up to his ear.

Spoiler

It also looks like his right hands wiggling to me (gif?) but that might be me straining to see it, I can make out the outline of the face and right hand, plus the edge of a watch band or cuff on his right wrist.