Snapdragon X Elite Reviews

[humbug]

Microsoft were the first to create an iPod, they did it badly
They tried very hard to get in to the smart phone market, badly.
They had some success with game consoles but nothing like Sony and these days XBox is a dying brand, not necessarily entirely Microsoft's fault but they are western game orientated and western games are crap compared with eastern games, increasingly so because the west is pretty soft and stupid, we have allowed ourselves to get crushed under the thumb of a giant cartel like grift of people creating problems that don't exists and then presenting themselves as the solution to said problem 'or else we call you bad names' and with that western developers concern them selves more with people who don't play their games and never will than they do making a good game.

The east sees that, are bamboozled by how we allow it to go on, just make good games and laugh at western media calling them bad names because they didn't pay their DEI grifters racket money.

Also, Microsoft are constantly trying to turn Windows in to Apple OS, badly...

 

[Mesai]

The second part is another good point, why would i want a laptop that because of the hardware that's in it might not be compatible with what i want to do? I don't even think about that with X86.

If the hardware is adopted, the software will follow.

Anyone who bought an Apple Silicon product in the first year or two was running a lot of their apps on Rosetta; Windows has Prism for the same scenario.

Thanks to Apple a lot of software vendors already provide ARM builds; whether Windows for ARM is any good is a different story. As a software developer, why would I buy and Intel or AMD laptop when I can have a better experience with the Snapdragon?

 

[Scramz]

Apple can tell developers exactly how to code for their new platform to use the dedicated accelerators that apples chips include. Good luck telling every windows or Linux developer out there that they need to code a certain way just to benefit a tiny market share.

"Efficiency" isn't what is holding x86 back, and modern x86 and arm chips barely look any different in terms of design. Intel or AMD could bung a load of fixed function accelerators onto an x86 chip the same way Apple have, but without software support you end up underwhelming outside of a carefully handpicked selection of benchmarks.

Have you seen all the partners that are developing their apps for these machines? It’s huge.

 

[humbug]

If the hardware is adopted, the software will follow.

Anyone who bought an Apple Silicon product in the first year or two was running a lot of their apps on Rosetta; Windows has Prism for the same scenario.

Thanks to Apple a lot of software vendors already provide ARM builds; whether Windows for ARM is any good is a different story. As a software developer, why would I buy and Intel or AMD laptop when I can have a better experience with the Snapdragon?

I can run about 95% of my games on Linux, is some cases they run better on Linux, 95% of the software i use is available on Linux, if not there are alternatives that are also more often than not better.

Its that remaining 5% that makes Linux nothing more than a curiosity to me and i would like nothing more than to get off windows.

Qualcomm and Microsoft are marketing these things as better than X86, as a fantastic revolutionary new thing in the same vain as AI, because they know its only when people think that is when they get the masses to even consider it.

The problem they have is its not even 95% let alone 200%.

 

[Journey]

People seem to be confusing their own personal choices with mass market adoption in businesses. As long as the main M365 apps work, and productions from Adobe etc. and Prism does the rest of the heavy lilting, the end users won't care what CPU is under the keyboard, especially if they are lighter, with longer batter life, not hot and noisy.

 

[humbug]

People seem to be confusing their own personal choices with mass market adoption in businesses. As long as the main M365 apps work, and productions from Adobe etc. and Prism does the rest of the heavy lilting, the end users won't care what CPU is under the keyboard, especially if they are lighter, with longer batter life, not hot and noisy.

Like a Chrome Book.

 

[jigger]

If the hardware is adopted, the software will follow.

Anyone who bought an Apple Silicon product in the first year or two was running a lot of their apps on Rosetta; Windows has Prism for the same scenario.

Thanks to Apple a lot of software vendors already provide ARM builds; whether Windows for ARM is any good is a different story. As a software developer, why would I buy and Intel or AMD laptop when I can have a better experience with the Snapdragon?

You must see the difference between Windows and Apple as a platform. You can’t point at Apple and use them as an example of what the future of computing looks like.

 

[Journey]

Like a Chrome Book.

No, nothing like a Chrome book at all.

 

[jigger]

People seem to be confusing their own personal choices with mass market adoption in businesses. As long as the main M365 apps work, and productions from Adobe etc. and Prism does the rest of the heavy lilting, the end users won't care what CPU is under the keyboard, especially if they are lighter, with longer batter life, not hot and noisy.

In some cases, but the cost will definitely matter and by association performance and stability will also matter.

 

[humbug]

Apple is a closed platform, only software approved by Apple will run on their ecosystem.

Microsoft are always looking for a way to control their own ecosystem. ARM offers that, people posting on this forum need to enter that in to their equations.

No, nothing like a Chrome book at all.

Its the same thing, the only difference is the OS.

 

[Journey]

In some cases, but the cost will definitely matter and by association performance and stability will also matter.

Of course the cost and stability will matter, but given that they've already stated the ARM Windows laptops aren't going to end up like Apple where they cash in on huge savings with a SoC and pass all the extra margin on to themselves. We'll have many, many OEM's (Dell/HP/Lenovo/ASUS/Microsoft etc.) offering many models at competitive prices. Not sure why people are so scared and frightened of a different CPU architecture, you would think they invented and owned the x86 rights.

 

[humbug]

Of course the cost and stability will matter, but given that they've already stated the ARM Windows laptops aren't going to end up like Apple where they cash in on huge savings with a SoC and pass all the extra margin on to themselves. We'll have many, many OEM's (Dell/HP/Lenovo/ASUS/Microsoft etc.) offering many models at competitive prices. Not sure why people are so scared and frightened of a different CPU architecture, you would think they invented and owned the x86 rights.

These corporations never do anything unless it benefits them.

 

[humbug]

Do you think Adobe make you sign a new TOS that gives them rights to your work because they think its good for you or because they want to use your work to train their AI and profit from it?

 

[jigger]

Of course the cost and stability will matter, but given that they've already stated the ARM Windows laptops aren't going to end up like Apple where they cash in on huge savings with a SoC and pass all the extra margin on to themselves. We'll have many, many OEM's (Dell/HP/Lenovo/ASUS/Microsoft etc.) offering many models at competitive prices. Not sure why people are so scared and frightened of a different CPU architecture, you would think they invented and owned the x86 rights.

I’m just looking at pre order prices for systems running this chip and considering that these are single segment parts so will be manufactured in relatively low volumes. The systems will be predominantly Windows based running middleware through an emulation layer that is also Window based.

This particular chip design will make it difficult to service markets and Windows will always find a way to fall over without the extra layers of abstraction. I’d love Windows to go away forever, but this leaves us with some questions to answer, particularly with new architectures pushed by numerous manufacturers all looking for that USP.

Taking a lasagna fail (windows) run through another lasagna fail (emulation layer) and expecting it work well across a multitude of very different hardware sets and middleware applications could be a touch optimistic. Expecting reliable performance from Windows on newly developed hardware is probably overly optimistic.

 

[Mesai]

You must see the difference between Windows and Apple as a platform. You can’t point at Apple and use them as an example of what the future of computing looks like.

They are very different, and had Microsoft been the first the adopt ARM, I doubt we’d have such a rich ecosystem of ARM-native apps.

Having a walled garden has its perks.

 

[jigger]

They are very different, and had Microsoft been the first the adopt ARM, I doubt we’d have such a rich ecosystem of ARM-native apps.

Having a walled garden has its perks.

And this is the problem. People need to choose ARM over X86 in huge numbers and right now (outside of Apple) that requires making sacrifices.

I could pay £1500 for this ARM notebook and deal with headaches on Windows or £1500 for the latest AMD U APU and pretty much have an issue free life plus better performance on any flavour of OS I like. Windows/OS+ARM+(Insert manufacturer) have to beat that.

 

[Mesai]

And this is the problem. People need to choose ARM over X86 in huge numbers and right now (outside of Apple) that requires making sacrifices.

I could pay £1500 for this ARM notebook and deal with headaches on Windows or £1500 for the latest AMD U APU and pretty much have an issue free life plus better performance on any flavour of OS I like. Windows/OS+ARM+(Insert manufacturer) have to beat that.

As with anything, it's going to depend on the individual.

I fully expect my desktop to remain on x86 for years to come, but I don't see why I'd pick x86 over ARM for work/laptop use (ideally Linux). Not saying people will pick these up today; the software, in typical MS fashion, looks buggy as hell; but in a year or 2 (assuming steady improvement) these will be great options for software development, light office use, creative work, etc.

 

[humbug]

As with anything, it's going to depend on the individual.

I fully expect my desktop to remain on x86 for years to come, but I don't see why I'd pick x86 over ARM for work/laptop use (ideally Linux). Not saying people will pick these up today; the software, in typical MS fashion, looks buggy as hell; but in a year or 2 (assuming steady improvement) these will be great options for software development, light office use, creative work, etc.

Kinda wierd wording that, no one is being asked to pick X86 over ARM, they are being asked to pick ARM over X86, what does ARM offer that X86 does not? I can list reasons why to pick X86, i can't list any reason to pick ARM, can you?

 

[Mesai]

Kinda wierd wording that, no one is being asked to pick X86 over ARM, they are being asked to pick ARM over X86, what does ARM offer that X86 does not? I can list reasons why to pick X86, i can't list any reason to pick ARM, can you?

Again, it depends. Cloud providers are asking people to pick ARM over x86. Apple is "asking" people to pick ARM over x86. All of your mobile devices are picking ARM over x86. There's clearly an advantage to the IS that cannot be served by even the latest AMD and Intel x86 products.

x86 isn't going away, but soon you'll have options. Why would I get an x86 laptop for work when I could have a quiet and cool laptop that performs well on battery thanks to the ARM architecture? A lot of creators moved to Apple for similar reasons.

 

[Armageus]

Edit: One big difference is Apple has the benefit of SOC, which does have an advantage.

And what is that?

Given that AMD's desktop Ryzen is basically only 1 step away from being a SoC anyway (currently a System on Package), and the fact that AMD have embedded Ryzen that is a SoC, then for the markets they target they obviously don't consider it a huge advantage, otherwise all the products could be.

If the hardware is adopted, the software will follow.

But aside from chucking money at hardware manufacturers so they can sell them cheaper than x86, why would anyone buy one?

Anyone who bought an Apple Silicon product in the first year or two was running a lot of their apps on Rosetta;

The difference being if you were already in Apple's ecosystem, you had a choice either put up with it, or leave the ecosystem.
On Windows there's literally no reason to have to put up with it. Just carry on using an x86 laptop, native x86 apps and wait for this fad to all blow over. (Much like every other fad that MS has tried to force - Windows Phone, Windows 8, their first attempt at Surface ARM)

Windows has Prism for the same scenario.

Apple seem to have competent developers, Microsoft these days - not so much. I mean we can't even get a consistent UI across windows 11, or a new file system that actually works without there being weekly revisions that lose data, so I'll take a hard pass on assuming that Prism will a) actually work in every scenario, and b) not be dropped like a stone whenever they feel like it.

Thanks to Apple a lot of software vendors already provide ARM builds;

You keep saying this, but it's irrelevant. Just because an app has an ARM build doesn't make it any easier to make a Windows ARM build.
Arguably with modern build tools it's normally as simple as ticking a box for your build target, and out pops an ARM app at the end of it. It's largely the testing and optimisation processes that take the time and money.

As a software developer, why would I buy and Intel or AMD laptop when I can have a better experience with the Snapdragon?

As a software developer, I'd buy whatever offers the best price/performance and support. I don't want to buy into a platform that will be dropped in a years time.

People seem to be confusing their own personal choices with mass market adoption in businesses.

I won't be mass market adopting it at our business. Our in house apps aren't able to be recompiled for ARM, they also won't be tested/optimised for Prism emulation. I suspect there are a lot of other businesses with legacy apps in the same situation.

As long as the main M365 apps work, and productions from Adobe etc. and Prism does the rest of the heavy lilting, the end users won't care what CPU is under the keyboard, especially if they are lighter, with longer batter life, not hot and noisy.

That does sound exactly like what was said about Chromebooks.

No, nothing like a Chrome book at all.

It's almost exactly the same situation. Reel users in with promises of better battery life, slimmer form factor, because everything you do works in your browser anyway. It's only 6 months down the line that you then realise you can't get App X/Y or Z for it (or in the case of Windows ARM that it runs terribly), and suddenly the tiny advantages aren't worth it.
And equally if you can manage with only "main apps" then why not just move to Apple (or even Linux) anyway?

Not sure why people are so scared and frightened of a different CPU architecture, you would think they invented and owned the x86 rights.

Not at all scared or frightened, just we've seen it all before and been let down by it all.

x86 is going nowhere, whether that be in laptops, desktops or servers.