Snowden files 'show massive UK spying op'

LateX'Dog said:
I thought we were in a free country with free speech? And a shining beacon of democracy. :confused::rolleyes:
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None of this prevents you from speaking freely but you need to avoid the misapprehension that freedom of speech is also freedom from consequence. We've never had absolute freedom of speech and nowhere that I know of has complete freedom from consequences with their idea of free speech. It's also not necessarily undemocratic either.

As far as I can tell they're collecting lots of data but looking for quite specific trigger points so the vast majority of the data can, and will, be ignored. If you wanted to argue that the method is disproportionate to the result then you might potentially have a case but some level of monitoring is to be expected.
 
dowie said:
Rather different when its an authoritarian regime which can and will detain its citizens for political purposes rather than a liberal democracy which is more interested in seeking out serious security threats.

Its not like we're packing people off to Gulags in some remote part of Scotland because we dislike their political views. In fact we're hard pressed to even deport the most obvious looking comedy terrorist character to Jordan because our courts fear that some evidence used against him over there could be related to torture.
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People detained in Guantamo bay, pretty much all of them detained there have not had court proceedings... The US government just pointed finger at them and stuck them in there... Is this really that different to Gulag?? :confused:

They are there apparently for "Threat to the US government and people" People were sent to gulag and kept there for exactly same reasons.
 
I wonder if you could do a subject access request to GCHQ to see what they hold on me am ordinary citizen with no reason to hold my data. My guess is they have something on all of us without reason or warrant.

What will the public do about it? Probably nothing the apathy is appalling in this country, seriously our own government are snooping on our Internet data without a single reason, other than the terrorism boogeyman BS.

Seriously if there was ever a reason to riot it's now!

Oh and just for GCHQ: bomb, overthrow, government, parliament, monarchy, Cameron, Obama, assassinate, Arab, Riot, alah, bin laden

Everyone on the Internet should start adding spy keywords into posts, emails etc it will clog the system until it breaks
 
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MrMoonX said:
I wonder if you could do a subject access request to GCHQ to see what they hold on me am ordinary citizen with no reason to hold my data. My guess is they have something on all of us without reason or warrant.

What will the public do about it? Probably nothing the apathy is appalling in this country, seriously our own government are snooping on our Internet data without a single reason, other than the terrorism boogeyman BS.

Seriously if there was ever a reason to riot it's now!
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Rioting wont solve nothing... We will just ascend into anarchy thats all. You just have to get used to that you dont live in a free and democratic society that is all and that you were a fool to believe you were...

You want freedom? Go live in Amazon or Taiga.
 
Lazder said:
People detained in Guantamo bay, pretty much all of them detained there have not had court proceedings... The US government just pointed finger at them and stuck them in there... Is this really that different to Gulag?? :confused:

They are there apparently for "Threat to the US government and people" People were sent to gulag and kept there for exactly same reasons.
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Well firstly that would be the US govt not the UK. Secondly its a few hundred people captured in a war zone not people arrested for political purposes within the USA. The Soviet Gulags led to the deaths of millions of people - you're trying to compare large scale arrests an inhumane treatment of millions of people it was possibly a bigger crime against humanity than the holocaust.

Guantanamo bay, though abhorrent, has very little to do with concerns about the surveillance of UK citizens and/or residents by a UK agency. And the point still stands - an authoritarian regime which can and will detain its citizens for political purposes isn't really comparable to a liberal democracy which is more interested in seeking out serious security threats. The comparisons made with the Soviets is more than a bit ridiculous.

Its hardly shocking that GCHQ would monitor internet communication - its what they are there for... I'd be more worried if their only capability was just listened to radio communications and steaming open some post sent via royal mail.
 
It's funny the same people who would play the "conspiracy nut" card to such information a few months ago are the same people who play the "shocker spy agencie spies on people" card now.....
 
Craterloads said:
It's funny the same people who would play the "conspiracy nut" card to such information a few months ago are the same people who play the "shocker spy agencie spies on people" card now.....
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Why on earth would anyone think the idea that spy agencies spy on people is some 'conspiracy nut' theory?

Spy agency conspires to blow up WTC is a bit different to spy agency formed to intercept communications actually does what it says on the tin...
 
MrMoonX said:
I wonder if you could do a subject access request to GCHQ to see what they hold on me am ordinary citizen with no reason to hold my data. My guess is they have something on all of us without reason or warrant.

What will the public do about it? Probably nothing the apathy is appalling in this country, seriously our own government are snooping on our Internet data without a single reason, other than the terrorism boogeyman BS.
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Send a SAR to GCHQ? :D
 
Craterloads said:
That's like saying cancer is more favourable over aids, does not make the former any less palatable.
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You actually think that having some logs of phone calls stored in a data base somewhere which in 99.9% of cases no human will ever read isn't any more or less palatable than some people, other humans, actively spying on you?
 
gillywibble said:
We are entitled to freedom here, and should fight for it tooth and nail.
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Exactly but most people just roll over and take it because they actually believe this unwarranted mass surveillance somehow keeps them safe.

I simply don't get how people think having a tap on one of the key Internet junctions in the UK siphoning off data is acceptable to anyone. Yes we need intelligence agencies but this is just mass data collection. I'd say it's illegal.

Although the DBA inside me does want access to that database. Just to have a little play.
 
Craterloads said:
That's not what I said is it.
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No you made an ambiguous comparison... I'm not even sure which you were comparing the aids or cancer to... you did however appear to put forward the idea that both were as unpalatable as each other. Perhaps explain your view if you feel I've misinterpreted it?
 
I work for a major telco, and I've just being trying to get my head around what sort of operation would be required to a) tap in and b) write that volume of data. We do 100gb links and multiples there of globally, with some pretty impressive muxes at either end. Data throughput at that transmission layer would be massive.

Also, how they'd get away with it without anyone noticing baffles me. Surely someone would have seen a bunch of guys walking into a clearing house, or an ISP's data suite and either rerouting fibres or installing several racks worth of kit in between links...
 
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