Snowden files 'show massive UK spying op'

semi-pro waster · 23 Jun 2013 at 12:45

asim18 said:
Eh? What's that supposed to mean? You want people to act and go blow up the government just because they're aware of sinister government procedures?

Being aware of something doesn't mean you're obliged to go on a rampage against the government.

The way your comment was phrased it looks as if you're laughing at the people on the "epic leash" which might suggest that you don't believe you're on the same leash and that you feel superior in some way about that? Or is this you acknowledging that despite the knowledge you feel you have that life is not really any different for you than it is for others who are on the leash?

asim18 · 23 Jun 2013 at 12:49

semi-pro waster said:
The way your comment was phrased it looks as if you're laughing at the people on the "epic leash" which might suggest that you don't believe you're on the same leash and that you feel superior in some way about that? Or is this you acknowledging that despite the knowledge you feel you have that life is not really any different for you than it is for others who are on the leash?

I should have said "us" instead of "you". I'm still your neighbour

scorza · 23 Jun 2013 at 12:51

asim18 said:
Do you realise that "terrorism" still has the potential to occur even if every single bit of electronic communication in the whole world is intercepted?

Just backs up what I said.

Government: "Let us spy on everyone and in exchange we will protect you from phantom terrorist attacks".

Brilliant.

You're forgetting about the numerous terror plots that have been thwarted by the security services in this country - the Heathrow liquid bomb plot for example. Or are you trying to claim it was a "phantom" attack because it was stopped before it happened?

StriderX · 23 Jun 2013 at 12:54

scorza said:
You're forgetting about the numerous terror plots that have been thwarted by the security services in this country - the Heathrow liquid bomb plot for example. Or are you trying to claim it was a "phantom" attack because it was stopped before it happened?

However how do we know that in any way the undesirable snooping had anything to do with stopping it?

scorza · 23 Jun 2013 at 12:57

StriderX said:
However how do we know that in any way the undesirable snooping had anything to do with stopping it?

I don't tbh, but that plot, the 7th July attacks and others are the reason why we need GCHQ and the surveillance they do. If the UK wasn't such a hotbed of Islamic extremism, then perhaps there'd be an argument that it wasn't needed.

asim18 · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:00

scorza said:
You're forgetting about the numerous terror plots that have been thwarted by the security services in this country - the Heathrow liquid bomb plot for example. Or are you trying to claim it was a "phantom" attack because it was stopped before it happened?

Well, what idiot doesn't know about electronic data mining and analysing now? It's world news. I don't see it foiling any actual plots that have any potential of actually occurring.

Also, in that case you mentioned, he was put under live surveillance by the way. Actual agents in visual range, watching his moves. Not some multi-million petabyte mass internet data mining operation. Two entirely different things.

StriderX · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:01

scorza said:
I don't tbh, but that plot, the 7th July attacks and others are the reason why we need GCHQ and the surveillance they do. If the UK wasn't such a hotbed of Islamic extremism, then perhaps there'd be an argument that it wasn't needed.

Islamic extremism? are you ignoring the nationalist extremism here?

Nate--IRL-- · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:02

Worth a watch.

Nate

scorza · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:05

asim18 said:
Well, what idiot doesn't know about electronic data mining and analysing now? It's world news. I don't see it foiling any actual plots that have any potential of actually occurring.

Also, in that case you mentioned, he was put under live surveillance by the way. Actual agents in visual range, watching his moves. Not some multi-million petabyte mass internet data mining operation. Two entirely different things.

Which is why leaking this information to the media was such a stupid thing to do. Lives have been put at risk.

He? There was more than one conspirator. I'm sure the security services have lots of different tools and techniques available to them.

scorza · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:07

StriderX said:
Islamic extremism? are you ignoring the nationalist extremism here?

I'm not aware of a specific threat from nationalist extremists, but yes it's the security services job to monitor those as well.

asim18 · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:09

scorza said:
He? There was more than one conspirator. I'm sure the security services have lots of different tools and techniques available to them.

Yes, he. When surveillance begins they start with one suspect and branch out from there (Ahmed Ali in this case). They don't just foil their whole plan and put everyone involved on surveillance in one swoop. That's not how it works otherwise there wouldn't even be any need to investigate anything further

.

scorza said:
Lives have been put at risk.

And what? You do realise lives have always been at risk? You do realise people died in the Boston attacks? Do you realise Lee Rigby died?

Amazing. You seem to be proving everything about believing all this government propaganda about "let us know about every detail of your life and we will keep you safe".

Nate--IRL-- · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:10

scorza said:
Lives have been put at risk.

How, exactly?

Nate

StriderX · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:12

Why does it even matter anyway, we are so happily arming the terrorists in the first place, but oh no once its targeted at us, lets start dropping all kinds of crap on people.

MrMoonX · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:13

scorza said:
I don't tbh, but that plot, the 7th July attacks and others are the reason why we need GCHQ and the surveillance they do. If the UK wasn't such a hotbed of Islamic extremism, then perhaps there'd be an argument that it wasn't needed.

wow so much fail right here! I bet you read the sun and the daily fail at the same time

Amp34 · 23 Jun 2013 at 13:33

scorza said:
Which is why leaking this information to the media was such a stupid thing to do. Lives have been put at risk.

He? There was more than one conspirator. I'm sure the security services have lots of different tools and techniques available to them.

But people have known this type of monitoring has been occurring for years... True only difference is we now know the net is far wider than we assumed legally possible.

It's why anyone with half a brain would not use a system connected to them to organise anything like this, be that by using prepaid one use phones or via things like one use emails or personal meetings.

Rekcarc · 23 Jun 2013 at 15:08

They allowed the terrorist attacks to happen, just as they allowed Pearl Harbour happen they knew about it but did they warn people? no because they wanted an excuse to retaliate.

thep02 · 23 Jun 2013 at 15:57

The only people they can spy on blackmail and pressure are small time Joe public any spy or real terrorist would change their identifying features such as Imei or Mac addresses, I say real terrorist as most who get caught are suckers who mouth off on forums then got played by the ABC agencies, set up, supplied and framed by agents acting as alciada jihadis,

Xordium · 23 Jun 2013 at 16:49

gillywibble said:
You really think they thought that would happen?

Why answer a question with a question unless the answer would demonstrate the example you gave was not comparable.

gillywibble · 23 Jun 2013 at 17:20

Xordium said:
Why answer a question with a question unless the answer would demonstrate the example you gave was not comparable.

Of course it is comparable. If at some point in the future there is another round of mass genocide, what will it be based upon? Clearly we cannot know the answer and so could be deemed vulnerable if the situation were to arise.

kibblerok · 23 Jun 2013 at 17:28

scorza said:
..but yes it's the security services job to monitor those as well.

You're right it is.

As for you, me and 99.9% of the population? Well unless they suspect us of wrongdoing and obtain a warrant they should **** off and butt out, it's none of their business and it's not for them to sift through our personal lives/communication.