SNP to break up Britian?
- Thread starter jsmoke
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Soldato
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Agreed, politics is all about power. He wants to be a big fish in small pond rather than a small fish in a big pond.
What irritates most is the claim from nationalists that if you don't support the SNP/independence then you're not a real scotsman and/or a traitor to your country. Which the same argument every extremist uses.
Associate
I would go for yes vote cos it need to be change for the future for thr scottish... dont like union jack flag cannae stand... rep of irelans left uk in 1922 so scots may follow if yes vote score high but best wait until sept 2014... it 18 months to go that plenty of time to think it about
Every extremist you say?
Would that include Alistair Darling and the Better Together campaign?
Wingsland said:We’ve been documenting of late how the No campaign has grown increasingly negative and smear-based since the turn of the year, as opinion polls show a trend of small but consistent movement towards independence. One of the core characteristics of negative political campaigning is to accuse your opponents of doing the thing you’re actually doing, and the last couple of days have thrown up some striking examples.
That’s our old pal Euan McColm of the Scotsman, of course. And he’s not alone.
Here’s another keen Wings Over Scotland reader, Labour’s admirably tireless one-man misinformation machine Duncan Hothersall, singing from an oddly similar script:
The co-ordinated smear topic of the moment appears to be a graphic this site created yesterday and posted on Facebook and Twitter, about campaign donations:
There aren’t too many words on it, and the few there are are pretty unambiguous. The only people attempting to draw a distinction between “real” Scots and any other type of Scots, it notes, are the No campaign.
To the best of our knowledge, Yes Scotland has never used the phrase. And while we have no connection with Yes Scotland – or to the SNP, despite Mr McColm’s dogged insistence to the contrary – nor would we. (Given that I currently live in England, after all, I’m hardly in a position to play “Scottisher than thou” with anyone.)
The image above could hardly be any more clear or explicit – “We don’t call people ‘real Scots’ or ‘fake Scots’”, it says. The notion of ethnic nationalism is expressly, unequivocally rejected, and not even Euan McColm is too stupid to be able to understand that from those words. If he’s pretending to be, he’s doing so for a purpose.
So just out of interest, who does go on and on about who’s a “real Scot”?
“Alistair Darling says Better Together campaign will be led by real Scots“
“Real Scots backing Britain – Forty Scots from different walks of life spoke up for the UK at the Better Together launch.”
“In contrast to the separatist campaign, our materials don’t attack the other side of the argument. We simply offer facts, and the perspective of real Scots who offer their reasons for sticking together in the UK.”
“The Better Together launch event on Monday was a great success and we couldn’t have wished for a better start or better reaction from the media. It was all a marked contrast to the celebrity soaked SNP event of a few weeks earlier and recognised as such because what we had were real Scots proclaiming their belief in the value of the Union to them as Scots and saying so unashamedly and directly.”
“Better Together was launched in June this year by Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats and since its formation it has been aiming to reach out to and be focussed on real Scots from all walks of life.”
“Where the SNP had a few foreign-based luvvies telling us how much they loved Scotland, the better campaign had real Scots who actually live here telling us why they believed it was better for Scotland to remain within the UK.”
Well, you get the idea.
This is of course just a single thread of the complex tapestry of lies and smears currently being woven by the Unionist side. This site alone has been the target of an avalanche of unfounded abuse, increasing dramatically in intensity as our readership figures have rocketed. There will be much, much more of it to come, because it appears that the No camp has completely exhausted its arguments about independence – all it’s got left is to try to take out the messengers. And with 17 months still to go, the tackles are only going to get wilder.
It seems that most of the accusations that are banded about are mainly committed by 'Better Together' as the campaign starts to merrily falls off its wheels. Accusing the 'SNP', not Yes, of a sustained "dirty tricks campaign" when it is discovered that the £500,000.00 donation to 'Better Together' is tainted money.
All's well that ends well.
Surely there are Scots MP's elected in English constituencies? There are certainly English MSP's, including English SNP MSP's.
I certainly don't want to expel English people in the welcome advent of Scottish Independence, that's narrow minded, just slightly xenophobic and completely unjustifiable.
Associate
I think i might vote yes. Any English person who fancies joining us, can, lol.
I think Scotland would be foolish to vote yes, and it would be a shame to pointlessly break up the union, but it's up to them, if they want to then go for it. Especially if it'll stop Bio from going on and on and on about it at the slightly provocation. 
I think everyone's overlooking a huge opportunity; if you disagree with the way the country is being run, the undemocratic way in which MPs are elected and how they put party politics before their constituents then why not move to Scotland now and vote yes for independence? At least you'll have something different to complain about if it doesn't work in the way you imagined.
Alternatively, if you currently live in Scotland and are relatively happy with the way things are going as the UK - just move south if independence does go through.
Alternatively, if you currently live in Scotland and are relatively happy with the way things are going as the UK - just move south if independence does go through.
I think Scotland would be foolish to vote yes, and it would be a shame to pointlessly break up the union, but it's up to them, if they want to then go for it. Especially if it'll stop Bio from going on and on and on about it at the slightly provocation.
It's not pointless if it's the wishes of the people of Scotland is it? They would have justified reasons in doing so, primarily a yearning for a more responsive, responsible local democracy.
I will probably hang my hat up if it pulls through, but in the mean time;
Caporegime
Ah yes, the plucky but ultimately unsuccessful Scotsman. I think we might be seeing yet another example of that on a larger scale in the near future .
.Coming back to this, here's the latest poll on the subject of the islanders feelings towards their own independence and indirectly Scotland, Scottishness and effectively Holyrood;
[Ignore the 'flags', the Aberdeen Press and Journal seems to be having significant difficulties with that respect.]
This is just another Unionist myth, that the Scottish Isles being unable or unwilling to relate to or wanting to be Scottish. Tavish Scott, discredited ex Scots Lib Dems leader and his chums are often trying to meddle with this unfounded idea, quite often every year with Up Helly Ha in particular.
I think most rational arguments accept that the territorial and political identity of Scotland will remain sound if and when Scotland votes Yes.
Ah yes, the plucky but ultimately unsuccessful Scotsman. I think we might be seeing yet another example of that on a larger scale in the near future
It would depend on how you view success.
Associate
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I am Scottish and I would be happy to forget about separating from England if only americans would learn that Scotland is not in England.
(and also more grown up things)
(and also more grown up things)
Why would you want to be governed by London, tho? I mean, most of the English don't even like Londoners
A disproportionate amount of money from taxes gets spunked on London. Plus they have virtually no idea about the issues affecting any other part of the country.
Permabanned
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Well, to be honest I'm really hoping they do go independent cause I'd seriously consider moving north to get away from this **** Government, and I'm half Scotch.
Associate
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Why would you want to be governed by London, tho? I mean, most of the English don't even like Londoners
A disproportionate amount of money from taxes gets spunked on London. Plus they have virtually no idea about the issues affecting any other part of the country.
I'm on the fence really, there are many considerations such as nukes, NATO, north sea territorial disputes, immigration, universal education, the EU etc. which need to be clearly addressed before I can really choose. Petty nationalism will get us nowhere. Plus there's the whole one island, one country thing. If English people were less dickish about the whole thing I'd be much happier about sticking it out with them.
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What makes them think they'd even get that? Is Alex Salmond some sort of super amazing wonder leader who once freed from the terrible clutches of London will turn Scotland into the worlds most prosperous country or something?
It's not really a 'local' democracy is it? Much of Scotland is hundreds of miles from Edinburgh. I'd imagine life in Edinburgh is more similar to London than it is to life in, say, Thurso. The whole 'London rule' thing strikes me as such as daft thing to get so het up about - its just a geographical location. It's not as if the Scottish have had no influence in UK politics is it, heck over the last few decades a Scotsman has held the highest elected office in the Union!
Most of the arguments for splitting seem to stem from Nationalistic pride rather than credible and rational political and economic arguments. Most of the important economic questions are unanswered and probably won't be answered until after the Referendum anyway.
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