SNP to break up Britian?
- Thread starter jsmoke
- Start date
Will an independent Scotland really have more freedom? Will the additional budgetary freedom make up for the loss of any control over it's currency and the possible increase in control from the EU?
Is anyone really saying that though? I am sure plenty are saying they will find it more difficult on it's own but not failing.
Oh give over. 'Posh boys'? Really? That's twice you've said that about MP's. Suppose you wouldn't say that about Labour MP's who also are multi-millionaires, had decent upbringings and went to Oxford or Cambridge.
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Soldato
I think your argument would be strengthened if you articulated more.
At the moment you in particular are simply relying on old prejudices that, in the main, only held sway pre 1999.
I posted a link above here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-12849111
now, from what I understand, Scotland controls the vast majority of areas that actually make a difference to the people.
so tell us how Westminster is actually ruling (or ruining) Scotland in the way that you mean. How will the lives of Scots get better on a day to day basis?
Associate
From earlier posts, you can read how the conservative establishment elite treated the people of Liverpool. Unless you are one of those 'out of touch' cretins, you must be aware of how blind the London crowd are when it comes to the needs of the regions.
Scotland gets that chance to change that.
The English regions may want to think about what they want and how they can affect change.
Associate
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Am I right in thinking if Scotland do leave GB they will have to fund everything themselves, and theres a good chance that free prescriptions and the whole no uni fees will disappear?
Associate
All this talk about how downtrodden the Scots are and how they're being ruled by a couple of posh boys who have no idea what it's like north of Watford; well, say hello to the other 97%* of UK residents.
It doesn't make any difference where you are in the UK. The Tories will always look out for the rich, upper class whether they reside in the North, South, East or West, so there are plenty of people in the South East who are sick to death of them too.
As for the question of independence, I hope the Union is broken up and Wales and NI get independence too. It's wrong in this day and age that one country has to rely on a different one for governance.
I will say though, that if Scotland does seek the dissolution of the Union, then they do it properly and go the whole hog; clean seperation. Devo-Max is like moving out of home, but into the house next door so your Mum (please don't read this that England is Scotland's parent, it's the best way to describe my analogy is all
) can still do your washing and stuff.
And wasn't regional devolution in England already proposed, and it failed miserably? (pretty sure I read something about a NE assembly being shot down in a poll a while ago).
*made up statistic but probably not far from the truth I'd wager.
It doesn't make any difference where you are in the UK. The Tories will always look out for the rich, upper class whether they reside in the North, South, East or West, so there are plenty of people in the South East who are sick to death of them too.
As for the question of independence, I hope the Union is broken up and Wales and NI get independence too. It's wrong in this day and age that one country has to rely on a different one for governance.
I will say though, that if Scotland does seek the dissolution of the Union, then they do it properly and go the whole hog; clean seperation. Devo-Max is like moving out of home, but into the house next door so your Mum (please don't read this that England is Scotland's parent, it's the best way to describe my analogy is all
) can still do your washing and stuff.And wasn't regional devolution in England already proposed, and it failed miserably? (pretty sure I read something about a NE assembly being shot down in a poll a while ago).
*made up statistic but probably not far from the truth I'd wager.
Not necessarily, they will have to make decisions as to how and where they spend their budget just like every other nation. If they decide to retain free prescriptions and free university places then that money will not be available for other services or additional money will need to be raised via taxation to cover it.
One interesting side effect of that though would be that, as a separate nation in the EU then rUK students would also be entitled to free university education in Scotland.
Considering roughly 1/6th (maybe 1/7th?) of the UK population resides in London (and is therefore south of Watford) then your made up statistic is way out.
Not that this means I disagree with anything else, just your figure
Associate
Just for starters, with the limited powers of a devolved government, we abolished bridge tolls. Have free prescriptions and free University eductation.
Although the Scottish Enlightenment came in the middle of the eighteenth century, it was possible because the people were eductated. Scotland's contribution to the World far exceeded that expected of country that size.
The Scots built the British empire and through Westminster incompetence we gradually lost all of the benefits.
Today, we see what Cameron and Clegg are doing to prevent education of the masses. Trippling University fees. Tampering with School exams.
Will be interesting to see how much of that remains free if Scotland becomes independant.
Actually what they've done with School exams is an extremely good thing and long overdue. Having numerous exams boards to pick and choose from.. completely bizzare. Add to that being able to get an A* when A was already supposed to be the top mark.. just long overdue for changing.
As for Uni fees.. too many people going doing too many useless degrees as pushed by a Labour govenment obsessed with everyone going to uni no matter what they did and completely forgetting vocational qualifications, becoming tradesmen etc. Look at Germany and how they educate their kids and what the split of business type people work in.. that's something to copy as it works..ours is broken. Also the rather large issue with public finances.
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Soldato
lol
a pathetic, inaccurate and irrelevant response.
you don't know.
if Scotland controls all the areas described in the bbc link before independence how will the additional powers improve their lives?
i'm not saying there won't be differences (positive or negative) but since you personally are insulting the union, those defending it have a right to know.
But they have already done that so how will independence improve that?
Which are already devolved issues and so will not impact Scotland. So again, how will independence improve that?
The United Kingdom relies on the United Kingdom for governance. England, Wales, Scotland and NI just happen to be constituent parts of the United Kingdom.
I assume you believe the various constituent German states should also form independent nations?
Soldato
Both England and Scotland need agreement from the UK parliament on budget issues. It has nothing to do with "permission from England".
Scotland should be free to determine it's own future, outside of the UK if it wishes. Not determine the future of the UK as the SNP seem to think it has the right to do.
Associate
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i'm 50/50 on this. Part of me thinks it's a shame to break up somethign that has been successful for so long and another part thinks it will be amazing with the upcoming fighting over who gets what. Be interesting to see what happens with student fees, free hospital parking and perscriptions.
Associate
Free education and free prescriptions are pathetic are they?
Ask the people who have to drive over the forth road bridge every day are happy with the new arrangements.
I don't think I have insulted the Union, but I have drawn attention to some of its failings. Every day the failing of a westminster goverment appear in the newspapers and then they are ignored.
Try just owning up to and dealing with just one issue, not even a Scottish issue. Deal with the conspiracy to cover up the facts of Hillsborough. Deal with Geoffrey Howe's comment on letting Liverpool slip into manged decline.
Defending the Union, really. Talk about Blair's descision to go to war in Iraq. Talk about the loss of freedom of speech in this country.
Sure, Scotland may (or may not) have greater success as an independant country. I am giving my opinion. The people of Scotland will get to have their say in a vote. This is the correct procedure.
The only think we ask is that we are permitted to have our vote and that the result is respected.
Soldato
Spain, Italy and Greece would say different?
Ireland and Iceland are doing better because they are smaller.
Soldato
From what I'm seeing, an independent Scotland would try and emulate Norway's success. Salmond seems to draw a lot of inspiration from that country. I personally would like that.
Soldato
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