Really
I have seen the movie "which is awful by the way" twice and I still could not make much sense of it?So.... Twin Peaks is due to return.
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I have seen the movie "which is awful by the way" twice and I still could not make much sense of it?
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There's a fan edit out there that includes loads of deleted scenes that help makes things a little clearer.
E.g the David Bowie scene is a LOT longer.
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me Extended Edition - 3 hours 29 minutes
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me - 2 hours 15 minutes
Its mind boggling that there are 'at-the-time-seemingly-meaningless-scenes-and-dialogue' in the 25 year old FWWM that suddenly make perfect sense once you watch Season 3 !
The fan edit is so well done I couldn't tell which were the deleted scenes.
E.g the David Bowie scene is a LOT longer.
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me Extended Edition - 3 hours 29 minutes
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me - 2 hours 15 minutes
Its mind boggling that there are 'at-the-time-seemingly-meaningless-scenes-and-dialogue' in the 25 year old FWWM that suddenly make perfect sense once you watch Season 3 !
The fan edit is so well done I couldn't tell which were the deleted scenes.
Really
The movie is necessary viewing imo, Especially for those making the jump over to 'The Return'. The tonal shift in the film will help prepare people, whether they enjoy it or not.
What was your theory on episode 17+18?
I noticed in your last post you said you were going to watch them again before concluding what it all meant in your opinion. Having browsed google it just comes back with Cooper save Laura from her original fate but yet she was reborn as someone else and still had to endure a rubbish existence
On a side note apparently Julie Cruise has been slating Lynch and the new series and said the ending was trash!
I've not had much time as been working long hours this week, but I've had time enough to formulate a specific theory regardless (don't like to actively seek them online). Though, it's not quite tempered enough to hold much water as need to go over a few specific scenes in S3.
Cooper lost. You can't change what was. By trying to save Laura, he effectively exiled them from the 'true' reality they both once existed within, leading me to believe that many of the scenes we saw of Laura's mother/other townsfolk where taking place in a world where Laura NEVER existed to begin with. Coopers inability to accept what happened to Laura is his one major fault and, by extension, ours as an audience.
We want redemption, we want revenge and we want closure. But life isn't like that. It never will be, nor should it ever. I always sort of thought that was one of the stronger, more purely motivated points Lynch and Frost where trying to communicate. Life is ******* mental sometimes. Stuff just happens to people because... well, it has to happen to someone. Often it's unexplainable. Best just to sit back and enjoy the Coffee and Pie and just be Dougie Jones. As fried as his brain may have been, he helped pretty much everyone he ever came into contact with.
There's probably a thousand theories that can be made. Hell, I'm brooding on one that reaches past meta levels, where Audrey, Cooper and Laura wake up to the reality that it was all just a show.
I dunno, I've just enjoyed it all so much, regardless of what it was 'meant' to have been. I love GoT's and BB as much as the next guy, but having someone like Lynch unchained on television has been superb. I'd go so far as to say it's easily the most provocative and well realised shows that's ever been given the opportunity to air. Lynch and Frost just seemed so sure of every frame (as ironic as that seems, given that most of us have no idea what any of it meant).
We won't see a 4th season. Or rather, I HOPE we don't. That episode ended much as I'd expected it to have. Lynch is a man OBSESSED with ambiguity. He never wanted to reveal who Bob was in the first place. He wants discussion, debate and even disagreement because art is nothing without it.
As for Julie Cruises comments, I know she's always had a difficult relationship with Lynch. I remember her saying that she felt annoyed by the fact him and Badalamenti wrote all her tunes for her back in S1 and 2. Meh, too bad. Bet it made her career. Regardless, she can think what she likes just as the rest of us can. Her opinions are both as valid and invalid as ours are xD
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Interesting theory thanks 
I think I'm going to re watch it all series 1+2 then the movie and then The Return all within close proximity to try and get a better understanding as I haven't watched the original series and movie for about 6 months so feel like I have forgotten some major things that were referenced to in the past while watching The Return.
One thing I meant to ask which I keep wondering about that happened in one of the episodes a while back. When Laura's mum was in that bar and that guy was being a creep to her what the hell was that about when she basically opened her face up? Lol. What was she meant to be?
I think I'm going to re watch it all series 1+2 then the movie and then The Return all within close proximity to try and get a better understanding as I haven't watched the original series and movie for about 6 months so feel like I have forgotten some major things that were referenced to in the past while watching The Return.One thing I meant to ask which I keep wondering about that happened in one of the episodes a while back. When Laura's mum was in that bar and that guy was being a creep to her what the hell was that about when she basically opened her face up? Lol. What was she meant to be?
Is there anyone watching S3 who hasn't watched S1, 2, and FWWM? If there was, I'm sure they gave up early in the latest season
I watched them all when I was younger, then rewatched them all again after S3E08 - the one with the crazy nuclear / dirty people stuff - in a bid to try and understand it (it doesn't help btw).
So FWWM with me is pretty fresh, and the content of it didn't really assist with the final episode.
Haven't seen the extended tho. I found the std version pretty hard going after S1/2 binge. It was dark and boring, with nothing revealing. I will give the extended a chance in a few weeks/months.
But back to the ending... to notice the correlation of names in the house is impressive. Still not sure what it means, but I think time travel / alternate reality stuff has become so standard-fare since the 90's that it's a little bit beneath the reputation of Lynch (and Frost) to include it. Not quite "IT" ending bad, but not far off them all waking up and realising it was a dream.
I think including alt reality and dream plot points is necessary, seeing as much of TP's story in general is built on such things.
As derivative as it may seem now, the way it was implemented here was great imo, which I guess is all that matters.
As derivative as it may seem now, the way it was implemented here was great imo, which I guess is all that matters.
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Still thinking about the ending myself... Will comment when I have given it a bit more time to digest.
I wonder if "Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier" will add any further insight?
I wonder if "Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier" will add any further insight?
Like previous series, I found there were some great moments but there was a lot of meandering and lack of cohesion, and dare I say, arty farty nonsense. But that’s David Lynch.
Positive notes for me were Tammy (drool), Hawk and the real Cooper in the final episodes. Also, Laura’s scream is the best horror scream in existence.
Negatives were Andy and Lucy buying a chair, that drooling guy (someone please remind me who he is or tell me of his purpose?!) and log lady and Albert dying in real life.
Musically I loved seeing The Veils and NIN on the show too!
Positive notes for me were Tammy (drool), Hawk and the real Cooper in the final episodes. Also, Laura’s scream is the best horror scream in existence.
Negatives were Andy and Lucy buying a chair, that drooling guy (someone please remind me who he is or tell me of his purpose?!) and log lady and Albert dying in real life.
Musically I loved seeing The Veils and NIN on the show too!
I still can’t make my mind up if the return was excellent or an absolute pile of crap. Literally everyone else I know that watched it hated it but then again you either love Lynch or hate him there is no inbetween.Like previous series, I found there were some great moments but there was a lot of meandering and lack of cohesion, and dare I say, arty farty nonsense. But that’s David Lynch.
Positive notes for me were Tammy (drool), Hawk and the real Cooper in the final episodes. Also, Laura’s scream is the best horror scream in existence.
Negatives were Andy and Lucy buying a chair, that drooling guy (someone please remind me who he is or tell me of his purpose?!) and log lady and Albert dying in real life.
Musically I loved seeing The Veils and NIN on the show too!
I plan on re watching the whole 3 seasons and movie back to back as I think the Return will be better a second time around as there was just too much to take in from some episodes.
He should have brought the real Cooper back sooner and i absolutely hated Andy and Lucy this time around
I think that if it where any other show, under the supervision of any other creators, in pretty much any other time within the last 60 years, I'd agree.
But there's something about 'The Return' that completely drains me of all my critical faculties (of which admittedly, I have very little of xD).
It seems to be some bizarre, art house thought experiment designed solely to test the viewers patience, resolve and nerve all at once. Throughout the whole of season 3, I probably felt every tangible human emotion . I don't think I can say that for any other show...
Out of interest, have you seen 'Fire Walk With Me'? I think one of the reasons people felt there was a rather large, uncomfortable juxtapose between the first 2 seasons and this one is because they've never see the movie.
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Rumours abound of another series or movie... I think having had time to fully digest S3 completely I can really now appreciate its quality... I haven't done a rewatch but don't really feel I need to as the experience from watching it is still very vivid.
I've never really understood the search for "truth" and "what it all means" in this kind of entertainment product.
One of the small things I've learned in my life, having watched a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, read a lot of fiction, etc... is that it is nigh-on impossible to any one man, or even a team of people, to make a totally consistent and fully fleshed out fantasy world.
Many aren't even trying to do that. Many simply want to dazzle your eyeballs, or string you from one action-packed sequence to another.
Of course TP isn't that kind of product. But still, the search for truth is - imho - like trying to zoom in way too far with a digital image. You know what I mean? When you zoom in far beyond the detail that was actually captured, and you start needing software to create extra pixels to stop the image being blocky and low-resolution. That inserted information is guesswork. It's not there in the image, you're going beyond that which was captured and now you're filling in the blanks yourself.
I'm sure that in some instances there may be hidden depth and meaning to a film. I'd imagine that is pretty much the exception rather than the rule. Most times what I see people doing is searching for their own truth, inserting the missing links with their own imagination.
But why do this? We're talking about a fantasy - and often a flawed/incomplete fantasy, because nobody can create a fantasy world and nail down every detail. Maybe a theoretical supercomputer of the future could model every detail of a non-existent world, but we can't. There are always things that we need to fill in with our own imagination.
So why then spend so much time and effort trying to complete the incomplete? Trying to perfect the flawed?
Why not walk away. Accept that you were watching a piece of entertainment, that there is missing detail, because it's a story, and stories are finite in the detail that they capture. You can hunt and hunt and hunt for missing detail, but even if you find your "truth", that doesn't mean the detail was ever there to find. You might very well have made up the missing pixels from your own imagining of that story.
e: TLDR - in the real world there is always a truth. Things either happened or didn't happen. In a story/fiction, most things are undefined. They might have happened or they might not. Putting aside of course the fact that none of it actually happened.
Trying to "decipher" the things that "happened" that aren't explicitly spelled out by the story-teller; I'm just really confused why people even make the attempt. You can't actually "solve" a puzzle where none of the pieces are even real.
One of the small things I've learned in my life, having watched a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, read a lot of fiction, etc... is that it is nigh-on impossible to any one man, or even a team of people, to make a totally consistent and fully fleshed out fantasy world.
Many aren't even trying to do that. Many simply want to dazzle your eyeballs, or string you from one action-packed sequence to another.
Of course TP isn't that kind of product. But still, the search for truth is - imho - like trying to zoom in way too far with a digital image. You know what I mean? When you zoom in far beyond the detail that was actually captured, and you start needing software to create extra pixels to stop the image being blocky and low-resolution. That inserted information is guesswork. It's not there in the image, you're going beyond that which was captured and now you're filling in the blanks yourself.
I'm sure that in some instances there may be hidden depth and meaning to a film. I'd imagine that is pretty much the exception rather than the rule. Most times what I see people doing is searching for their own truth, inserting the missing links with their own imagination.
But why do this? We're talking about a fantasy - and often a flawed/incomplete fantasy, because nobody can create a fantasy world and nail down every detail. Maybe a theoretical supercomputer of the future could model every detail of a non-existent world, but we can't. There are always things that we need to fill in with our own imagination.
So why then spend so much time and effort trying to complete the incomplete? Trying to perfect the flawed?
Why not walk away. Accept that you were watching a piece of entertainment, that there is missing detail, because it's a story, and stories are finite in the detail that they capture. You can hunt and hunt and hunt for missing detail, but even if you find your "truth", that doesn't mean the detail was ever there to find. You might very well have made up the missing pixels from your own imagining of that story.
e: TLDR - in the real world there is always a truth. Things either happened or didn't happen. In a story/fiction, most things are undefined. They might have happened or they might not. Putting aside of course the fact that none of it actually happened.
Trying to "decipher" the things that "happened" that aren't explicitly spelled out by the story-teller; I'm just really confused why people even make the attempt. You can't actually "solve" a puzzle where none of the pieces are even real.
I think the original Matrix is the only movie that has come close to that - 1-2 other movies I've found thought provoking and sometimes show you a perspective to life you never realised before but most are very shallow or falter beyond the initial idea. Including the subsequent follow-ups to the original Matrix.
Whoever was behind the original Matrix (I refuse to believe this aspect of it is the Watkowski's as all their movies before and since are like a student to the master in this respect) really put some thought into things like character's off-screen motivations on a deeper philosophical level, etc. and almost every scene and environment, etc. reflects a deeper philosophy (stuff like breaking through the wall isn't just by chance) and while it is pretty subtlety interwoven and you can watch the movie a million times and not realise the significance it is there. Unfortunately a lot of it isn't something you can show someone - until someone has had the experiences or mentally gone through the processes themselves that unlock it most won't comprehend the depth of it.
I hope they don't go through with it. I just don't know what Lynch and Frost could say or do with another series that could ever best what they did with 3. It seemed to be EXACTLY what they wanted to make and the ending is so purposeful I just don't know where you'd take it after that.