Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[Tavis75]

Regarding this more specifically, it's actually worse than you think, because if someone has connected to your WiFi dongle, yes they can browse the internet probably very poorly. Being connected to this though, if they get into the dongle admin portal with the insecure password it came with, they can read your current WiFi password and SSID in plain text within the STA Interface Setting page.

Urgh, I hadn't thought of that. It would seem unlikely that anyone who did get onto the network would find their way to the dongle admin page, but certainly not impossible, and as you say, I can see that the password is displayed in plain text on there (GivEnergy really need to do some work on their security!)

Seems like I've got a fun day ahead of changing wi-fi passwords on a variety of smart devices, each with their own different and usually long-winded and annoying way of updating their settings.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Just switched my heating and water to "spring mode"
morning temp dropped to 14, day 10 and evening 17 we just boost it if/when we need it, but I don't want it under 14 when I get up

Main change was water, rather than 2 hours morning and 3 hours evening its now only on from 6-9pm so it should give our solar diverter some more time to do its magic rather than only being able to top up whats been lost (as it used/genuinely lost) since 7am when previous heating cycle for water ended.

Hopefully this sees a few more kwh diverted to water and if thats pretty hot come 6pm I will seriously consider turning water heating off and just relying on solar to top it up for the next month. Or maybe schedule weekends to be gas heated so it deffo gets up to temp for a couple of days a week.
Weekend tends to be when she who uses lots of hot water does her using lots of hot water thing (spa bath)

 

[200sols]

Guys I have two quotes if you have any thoughts, I'll be accepting one of these.

Quote 1 they have carried out a site survey
15x Jinko 420w
SolarEdge SE6000h
SolarEdge S440-MC4 x 15 optimisers
SolarEdge 10kWh battery

This is 11x panels on main roof 4 x panels on garage roof both facing south west, garage suffers from shading, main roof has a vent in it that shades a bit, + a few trees around not an issue in the summer though.

Panel cost installed £9092
Battery cost £7500

Quote 2 cant do a site survey until May and based on what the others said I dont think they'll fit 12 on the main roof with the vent and the roof shape.
12x Jinko 420w
1 x Solis 5k inverter
1 x bird protection
1 x givenergy 9.5kWh battery

£6692 for panels
£6244 for battery

Both good places with MCS etc unlike the last quote I had.

 

[Welshman]

Guys I have two quotes if you have any thoughts, I'll be accepting one of these.

Quote 1 they have carried out a site survey
15x Jinko 420w
SolarEdge SE6000h
SolarEdge S440-MC4 x 15 optimisers
SolarEdge 10kWh battery

This is 11x panels on main roof 4 x panels on garage roof both facing south west, garage suffers from shading, main roof has a vent in it that shades a bit, + a few trees around not an issue in the summer though.

Panel cost installed £9092
Battery cost £7500

Quote 2 cant do a site survey until May and based on what the others said I dont think they'll fit 12 on the main roof with the vent and the roof shape.
12x Jinko 420w
1 x Solis 5k inverter
1 x bird protection
1 x givenergy 9.5kWh battery

£6692 for panels
£6244 for battery

Both good places with MCS etc unlike the last quote I had.

damn how much are optimisers - nealry 2.5k different in both quotes for installation of 3 extra panels and optimisers

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Guys I have two quotes if you have any thoughts, I'll be accepting one of these.

Quote 1 they have carried out a site survey
15x Jinko 420w
SolarEdge SE6000h
SolarEdge S440-MC4 x 15 optimisers
SolarEdge 10kWh battery

This is 11x panels on main roof 4 x panels on garage roof both facing south west, garage suffers from shading, main roof has a vent in it that shades a bit, + a few trees around not an issue in the summer though.

Panel cost installed £9092
Battery cost £7500

Quote 2 cant do a site survey until May and based on what the others said I dont think they'll fit 12 on the main roof with the vent and the roof shape.
12x Jinko 420w
1 x Solis 5k inverter
1 x bird protection
1 x givenergy 9.5kWh battery

£6692 for panels
£6244 for battery

Both good places with MCS etc unlike the last quote I had.

Thoughts are :
1) generally more panels = better, partly depends on your usage of course but the costs of a few panels as a % of the total bill is low, so within reason max what you can
2) Quote 1, seems ok, solar edge is more expensive and better, if teh shading is not a summer issue your paying quite a lot for winter performance when it wont generate much anyway, (its like 80% generation in summer 6 months), why no bird netting, a must IMO
3) Quote 2, again feels ok. Cant they quote for 15 panels like first with setup like first, if you say look this is fine but you can confirm on survey please quote for this is should be pretty easy for them to do, although its partly based on whether shading really is an issue

I think if I was me I would lean towards the second.

 

[200sols]

although its partly based on whether shading really is an issue

The shading is an issue on the garage and cant fit more panels on the main roof because of this vent and the shape basically. Option 2 had 2 strings on the main roof, I expect moving to the garage as well would then need different inverter and optimisers again but I will ask on the survey, quotes are valid for a while so no rush to go with option 1 while waiting. Already asked quote 1 about bird proofing just waiting for cost, they dont seem to offer it as standard. Quick edit, they just came back at £600 for bird proofing.

damn how much are optimisers - nealry 2.5k different in both quotes for installation of 3 extra panels and optimisers

Quick check online they seem to be about £67-70 each and also the solar edge inverter is more than double the cost of the Solis.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The shading is an issue on the garage and cant fit more panels on the main roof because of this vent and the shape basically. Option 2 had 2 strings on the main roof, I expect moving to the garage as well would then need different inverter and optimisers again but I will ask on the survey, quotes are valid for a while so no rush to go with option 1 while waiting. Already asked quote 1 about bird proofing just waiting for cost, they dont seem to offer it as standard. Quick edit, they just came back at £600 for bird proofing.




Quick check online they seem to be about £67-70 each and also the solar edge inverter is more than double the cost of the Solis.

Most inverters have 2 strings and assuming the garage is basically alongside the main house I would assume quote 1 would have them split 7 and 8 anyway with a chunk of the roof on one and the remains of the roof and garage on another.
Its better to have more panels on a string as they need to get above a minimum voltage/wattage in order to start generating actual energy. 4 panels is a little low on its own and 11 pretty high.

£600 for bird proofing is about the going rate.

Do you have suggested generation for each system? I am still leaning to the first might not be worth the extra layout but if the first when adjusted to match the panels for the second shows more output then maybe its worth it.
IE I mean scale the second generation up by 4/11 to give an equiv per panel for suggested output.
Its a tricky one for sure. Whats your daily usage in kWh

 

[200sols]

Do you have suggested generation for each system? I am still leaning to the first might not be worth the extra layout but if the first when adjusted to match the panels for the second shows more output then maybe its worth it.
IE I mean scale the second generation up by 4/11 to give an equiv per panel for suggested output.
Its a tricky one for sure. Whats your daily usage in kWh

About 12kWh per day.

Option 1 says 6265kWh generation
Option 2 says 5011kWh

Actually when you scale it up the two systems are almost the same per panel if my maths is right. Like you say, the shading being outside of the main summer months probably doesn't affect things too much. The garage is next to the house but the angle of roof is different, 40 vs 26 degree for garage.

I guess it doesn't help the SolarEdge battery is £1k more for the quote. Pushes the 15 panel system out to £4000 more expensive. The site survey for option 2 is on May 4th but they did mention getting a head start on DNO stuff before that.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

See what some others think but i think if it was me I would option 2.
If you get around 5011 yoru going to overproduce a lot from March-Sept probably and the extra panels arent going to make mush diff when you get a day thats under 1Kwh in winter

Plus predicting energy costs right now is tricky. Thats a lot of extra payback you need with system 1. Even if you have to lose one panel from system 2.
If however you end up post survey with system 2 being lower due to shading then its a trickier proposition.

Modern panels are supposed to be far less influenced by shading on other panels. Worth looking into Jinko 420w panels to see if they are known to be good with some shading or not.
The issue was historically one panel being say 50% shaded impacted the whole string to the same impact where as most (if not all) modern panels are supposed to stop that, so only the directly impacted panel is affected.

Its safer with optimisers but as you see its at quite a considerable cost.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I'd take the specification from the company that's done an actual survey more seriously than the second one who hasn't. If they think optimizers are necessary, they're probably right.

Do you have an image of the roof?

I'd argue that the winter production is actually far more important than summer. In summer you'll have so much energy you will be exporting a load of it to the grid. During winter is when you need that extra generation to cover your usage.

 

[Ron-ski]

I think you'll have a much better system with SolarEdge, better solar wise and better as in monitoring, website, app etc. You may well find when the others come out for survey they can't fit all the panels on.

You just need to decide if it's worth the extra cost, my SolarEdge system was installed in December 2015.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I'd take the specification from the company that's done an actual survey more seriously than the second one who hasn't. If they think optimizers are necessary, they're probably right.

Do you have an image of the roof?

I'd argue that the winter production is actually far more important than summer. In summer you'll have so much energy you will be exporting a load of it to the grid. During winter is when you need that extra generation to cover your usage.

Winter generation is important but if it triggers a change in action that is almost certain to be illogical financially.
PV systems in the UK generate a high proportion in the "summer" six months they generate so low an amount in winter the financial payback would basically never be there.

Never rule out the want to upsell and the fact its not a straight forwards game with a correct answer as to whats best.

I almost fell into the trap of looking for more solar earlier this year. But you need to give your head a wobble, generating a decent amount in winter months in the UK is a daft target.
Simply the sun is too low and too weak.
If your trying to go off grid ofc the considerations are different but if your staying on grid the optimum isnt going to be achieved with massive arrays trying to lift the bottom generation months to an acceptable level.

 

[Welshman]

Do people always look for a financial payback on everything?? I know i didnt when i bought mine. I based it on lowering monthly bills and moral grounds of green energy. Payback didnt come into the equation for me.

i remember reading somewhere on here that buying a new tv wasnt financially viable owing to how long the payback period was…

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Everyone's situation is different. I want to be able to cover as much of my daily use as possible all year year round.

For me, covering the house load and starting to trickle power into the battery as soon as the sun is up, and extending the generation period as long as possible into the evening - is far more important than what peak I get at midday.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

This might be useful.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Do people always look for a financial payback on everything?? I know i didnt when i bought mine. I based it on lowering monthly bills and moral grounds of green energy. Payback didnt come into the equation for me.

i remember reading somewhere on here that buying a new tv wasnt financially viable owing to how long the payback period was…

I’m not sure the analogy works, the TV doesn’t generate anything that has a real value that you have to buy from elsewhere. Remember the alternative is you buy electricity from the grid. The point is that if it’s not financially viable to generate it yourself, there is little incentive to do it, particularly when the grid is getting greener quite quickly.

 

[Welshman]

I’m not sure the analogy works, the TV doesn’t generate anything that has a real value that you have to buy from elsewhere. Remember the alternative is you buy electricity from the grid. The point is that if it’s not financially viable to generate it yourself, there is little incentive to do it, particularly when the grid is getting greener quite quickly.

No the tv doesnt generate anything, but newer tvs use less power and thats how the payback was being calculated.

The grid isnt getting greener, they still burning gas and coal to run it, they just offset with carbon paybacks etc etc

 

[b0rn2sk8]

No the tv doesnt generate anything, but newer tvs use less power and thats how the payback was being calculated.

The grid isnt getting greener, they still burning gas and coal to run it, they just offset with carbon paybacks etc etc

No one does the top point because it’s obvious that a newer TV does not save enough energy over its lifetime to offset the cost.

The second point is wrong, the grid is getting objectively greener under every possible measure. We are using less energy and that energy has a significantly lower CO2 emissions and that continues to drop year on year.

Carbon offsets so not form part of the measure for our grid electricity as a whole.

 

[SoliD]

Do people always look for a financial payback on everything?? I know i didnt when i bought mine. I based it on lowering monthly bills and moral grounds of green energy. Payback didnt come into the equation for me.

i remember reading somewhere on here that buying a new tv wasnt financially viable owing to how long the payback period was…

Not much stuff, but stuff like Solar is literally, the having Solar cost vs spending that money on electric/gas, the only improvement in your life is on your environmental conscience. Other items i've done to save money such as my internal wall insulation or loft insulation have had a marked improvement in the quality of my living space, previously my bedroom would not heat up to a sufficient level even with the heating blasting out constantly, the cost saving was a secondary improvement compared to just being comfortable in my own home.

I think with items like Octopus Flux the increase in panels can now be beneficial even chucking export back into the grid and actually makes payback much quicker if you can balance your usage accordingly.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Everyone's situation is different. I want to be able to cover as much of my daily use as possible all year year round.

For me, covering the house load and starting to trickle power into the battery as soon as the sun is up, and extending the generation period as long as possible into the evening - is far more important than what peak I get at midday.

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