More to researchOr get one of them modern ones that looks like a raised tile, I have them, although they are now under my panels
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Soldato
More to research
Mine dont look like this exactly (15 years old) but this sort of thing
Glidevale Protect Universal Tile Ventilator Brown - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. Universal tile ventilator with low profile cowl, for new or existing pitched roofs at high or low level. Suitable for most universal single-lap interlocking roof tiles. Can be used as a terminal for soil vent pipe or most extractor fans with a 110mm diameter pipe...
Edit better installed pic here
Klober Universal Tile Vent, KG9854
Klober's universal solution is perfect for ventilating roof voids. It aids in recuding the build-up of mould growth and structural damage in the roof space, caused by damp, poorly ventilated roofs. The vent design ensures direct ventilation to the roof space that can be used with all roof...
eroofing.co.uk
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Soldato
That's the way to go, and if it means extra panels fit, then well worth doing.Or get one of them modern ones that looks like a raised tile, I have them, although they are now under my panels
See the below post for how quick extra panels will pay back.
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
https://youtu.be/BtOSAOaAmUM Thought this was quite interesting.
forums.overclockers.co.uk
Associate
Payback for Solar
Like others I have approached Solar from the green angle. Yes it is only a partial solution, and yes I have spent too much trying to extend my "solar season" beyond sensible limits.
German research showed (in 2010) that 70% of solar energy will be produced between the spring and autumn equinoxes with a 95% probability of this happening in one year. The probability climbs for 2 or more years.
There are easier and cheaper routes to saving energy/money than solar. We have a triple insulated loft installed 20 years ago
Currently my daughter's house has had a significant extension paid for by her stupid parents. Building regs submitted before last June only required fibreglass insulation in cavity walls. We have paid for full fill PIR insulation which looks like lego blocks and it means that, with other measures such as a proper warm roof (compulsory in all of Scandinavia) and triple glass skylights there are huge energy savings. The ground floor which is now over twice as big will actually cost less to heat than before.
We can all argue about the cost and payback but what about our children and grandchildren? We live really close to Hayling Island which has a maximum of 7 feet above the high water mark. I could say "I am all right Jack" as I live 34 feet above sea level. In the future, I could point out to Hayling Islanders that it is all their fault when they end up with salt water swimming pools.
The US is the worst country for global warming and failing to tackle the issues because of short term considerations. We are far from good as a country being a long way behind China. Not everyone can afford to take the measures but we are a rich country in global terms, so we need to do better. Those of us who are in the top 50% of wealth in the UK should take the lead.
Like others I have approached Solar from the green angle. Yes it is only a partial solution, and yes I have spent too much trying to extend my "solar season" beyond sensible limits.
German research showed (in 2010) that 70% of solar energy will be produced between the spring and autumn equinoxes with a 95% probability of this happening in one year. The probability climbs for 2 or more years.
There are easier and cheaper routes to saving energy/money than solar. We have a triple insulated loft installed 20 years ago
Currently my daughter's house has had a significant extension paid for by her stupid parents. Building regs submitted before last June only required fibreglass insulation in cavity walls. We have paid for full fill PIR insulation which looks like lego blocks and it means that, with other measures such as a proper warm roof (compulsory in all of Scandinavia) and triple glass skylights there are huge energy savings. The ground floor which is now over twice as big will actually cost less to heat than before.
We can all argue about the cost and payback but what about our children and grandchildren? We live really close to Hayling Island which has a maximum of 7 feet above the high water mark. I could say "I am all right Jack" as I live 34 feet above sea level. In the future, I could point out to Hayling Islanders that it is all their fault when they end up with salt water swimming pools.
The US is the worst country for global warming and failing to tackle the issues because of short term considerations. We are far from good as a country being a long way behind China. Not everyone can afford to take the measures but we are a rich country in global terms, so we need to do better. Those of us who are in the top 50% of wealth in the UK should take the lead.
Soldato
@Peteronthesouthcoast I'm also in the same as you, having spent far too much on solar, but I don't mind, my pension contributions have suffered which will have a knock on effect in the future, but my electric bill is likely to be negative, so that saving will go into my pension. I also feel I'm doing my bit for the environment, and it off sets my old diesel car although I do less than 8000 miles a year, no I'm not going electric any time soon, just too expensive for my limited mileage.
I agree with everything you say - but is this bit genuinely true? Do you have any source information?
When Neanderthals declare that there's no point in us doing anything to combat climate change, their excuse is often that we will make no difference anyway because China and India are so much worse.
Looking at emissions as a total is the wrong measure as it fails to take into account population size, that’s what their arguments always rely on. More people = more emissions if you are not net zero.
China has an emissions per capita that’s about the same as ours. India’s is lower, a lot lower in fact. Given China is the worlds factory, that’s not bad going.
The USA is one of the worst pretty much double our emissions per capita, only behind the small fossil fuel producing countries whos emissions are horrendous because of all the fuel production and refineries.
I forgot to say, of the ‘climate denying’ countries in regards to net zero, I think Australia (the country that bought you the clean coal slogan) will get their first and the USA will be in a distant last place.
Australia has gone from basically zero solar to 70% market penetration in just a few short years. The circa 3 year pay back period helps a lot! EV sales have also gone from zero to through the roof in the last couple of years.
Australia has gone from basically zero solar to 70% market penetration in just a few short years. The circa 3 year pay back period helps a lot! EV sales have also gone from zero to through the roof in the last couple of years.
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Soldato
Whilst I regularly write about financials in regards solar, one of my main considerations was in fact environmental.
Its just that for me once your have made that decision as long as the financials are not daft then there isnt a lot to say really from the environmental side.
Unless we want to impose a new "rule" that along with daily generation we require a calculation of saved CO2? Using the average daily rate for the UK elec generation for that day, of course
The aussies and chinese are going great guns on solar now. Aus generally perfect for it with massive open areas basically devoid of use (they just installed the largest array in the world) and China as ever will "authoritarian" anything that gives them a commercial advantage
And its clear now that its certainly one of them.
Its just that for me once your have made that decision as long as the financials are not daft then there isnt a lot to say really from the environmental side.
Unless we want to impose a new "rule" that along with daily generation we require a calculation of saved CO2? Using the average daily rate for the UK elec generation for that day, of course
The aussies and chinese are going great guns on solar now. Aus generally perfect for it with massive open areas basically devoid of use (they just installed the largest array in the world) and China as ever will "authoritarian" anything that gives them a commercial advantage
And its clear now that its certainly one of them.
Man of Honour
I feel the same. Although I was lucky to be able to save and pay for solar in 1 go. I'm still contributing 22% to my pension (that includes employer contribution).
I did it for 3 main reasons:
Environmental.
Immediate decrease of my bills.
Be able to use energy without worrying about usage.
So far all 3 are valid. I'm not getting an electric car so it also helps to offset the ICE cars we own.
My DD has dropped to £50 a month and still over £700 in credit. My gas bill has reduced (hot water usage). And last month I made money from octopus...
It's a very privileged position to be in and I realise not everyone can be in this spot. However as someone who earns a little more I have a responsibility to do the right thing to help those that can't, if me reducing my bills and usage means others can get better service/rates from utilities then at least I'm doing my bit for society.
I like those reasons. I just can't stomach lining installers pockets. Once prices come down, be it 3 years or 10 I will consider it. There will be a window at some point where it makes sense for me. Right now it just makes zero sense.
Man of Honour
Yes I was lucky that I avoided the rush. I put a 50% deposit down before all this energy issues became a thing and they were happy to wait for up to 12months on the price I paid. I realise a lot of installers won't do that but this is a small local firm.
Man of Honour
I mean considering that was for March I'm pretty happy. I know for April I'm already earning more than I spend.
Soldato
]I still contributing via my employers pension, but I wanted to retire early in 5 years, and unless I pay more in and the markets improve thats not likely to happen.
I couldn't stomach what the installers were quoting for, or the systems they were quoting for, but I've ended up paying a lot more than the quotes, but I've got one hell of a system for it, and I'm certain our bills are going to negative until at least October.
Man of Honour
Yeah I want to retire from full time work before my 60s. Not sure it'll happen but let's see!
Soldato
Same here….plus side for me is my partner is 9yrs older than me, so will get all her pensions before mine, so can plan from 58yrs old and on from there. So another 11yrs at fulltime max. Ive also started to up my pension contributions. Currently at 13%
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Associate
Pensions just to depress everyone
I suppose I ought to declare that I managed to retire aged 47. I am the same age as Bill Gates. Had he not dropped out of Harvard, he could also have retired early.
I have copied and pasted a piece written for someone else.
Hopefully you will find it interesting.
Pensions are very long term. The African approach is to have as many children as you can, so one or more can support you in your old age. In China the average savings rate is 40% as there are no pensions, healthcare, or education provided by the State.
At Home the State pension only started after WW2. The first company to set up a private pension scheme was BP, know in the oil industry in the 1950’s as Best Pensions. BP set a gold standard of 5% from workers and 10% from themselves.
My Dad, born in 1920, was persuaded to set up his own pension in 1945, when he came out of the army. For £5/month he was guaranteed £50/month when he got to 60. At the time wages were £15-20/week so £50/month was just over half of this. He did struggle a bit to maintain the payments. When he came to collect the money in 1980, inflation had ripped through almost the total value. He said it was the worst financial decision he had made, looking back.
Actuaries are responsible for making the decisions on how pensions are calculated. 2 Big factors are at play. They are investment returns and inflation.
Let me illustrate. In 1986 I became self employed full time. I had an existing pension pot which I could leave or take with me. I decided to take the money. To spread the risk, I opted to split the money 3 ways. One third I used to buy a prepaid pension where I was guaranteed an annual sum at 65 for a minimum of 5 years with 50% going to a spouse on death, standard at the time. Another third I left to roll over. Once bonuses were added to this, they could not be taken away and there was a guaranteed annuity of 10% on the final sum. The last third I used to start a new pension to which I would continue to contribute. The size of my original pot was £5100. The first third gave me a pension of £4350/year. The second rolled over nicely for the first 13 years to be a fraction short of £9k. In 1999 it was frozen never to increase again. I originally hoped things might get better and bonuses would return. Later I realised that this would not happen, but if I moved the money, I would lose the guaranteed annuity. The value of this pension became close to £900/year or just over 20% of the value of my prepaid pension. The final third was doing OK until 2001/2002, when the financial crash put pressure on all pension companies. With the final third I started a new pension to which I did contribute and was supposed to be my main pension in due course. In 2002/3 this company wrote to me, to tell me that to “protect my pension”, they had sold all their shares and bought government and commercial bonds. With pensions being long term, I was furious that this had been done without consulting me, and I was confident shares would recover. It took me nearly 4 months to get my money transferred out. The stock market had recovered by 19% from the selling price by now. 20% of my pension had disappeared. Was I happy……no.
In pension terms the last 70 years has been a game of 2 halves. From 1950 to 1990 there has been good investment returns and high inflation. After 1990 we have had low inflation and poorer investment returns.
Actuaries relied on the trends continuing which has not happened after 1990.
Endowment mortgages were very popular for a long time. You paid only interest on your mortgage and then the capital was repaid from the endowment. Typically homeowners were getting between 25% and 50% of the value of their original loan back as cash when the endowment matured. (The wife’s parents took us out to dinner to celebrate the repayment of their mortgage with the extra money from their endowment. They had bought their house 56 years ago and had a 25 year mortgage like the rest of us). For over 15 years homeowners have been warned that their endowment policies would not be enough to repay their mortgages, and encouraged to take on hybrid mortgages where they increase their payments to pay off some of their capital every month.
Back to pensions. Guarantees made by pension companies have almost always been kept. Equitable Life are the exception. The people who have done best out of the system will all have retired in the 1985-1995 period. Because pensions are so long term, we now know that actuaries have been gambling/using projections based on past performance. They have failed to put anything by, in case they got it wrong.
remember the Hog roast? The piggy looks big enough to serve the queue of people at the start. As time goes by, the guys slicing up the portions realise that there will not be enough pork to go round, so reduce portion size. The piggy is the cash. The queue is the people waiting to receive their pensions, and the slicing is done by actuaries.
Pensions being long term, this has not been so much of a crisis, as long term erosion of pension benefits for those not retired. My promise of £4350/year (now being paid out) cost me £1700 in 1986. 12 years later it would have cost ten times as much to buy the same benefit in the same situation, and 15 years later the product was dropped. That explains why I am very happy with the slice of pork I had “ordered” early.
There is no doubt it will take a very long time to redress the balance between past and future pensions. Final salary schemes have all but disappeared. Companies have all had demands for extra money to fund existing final salary schemes, whilst moving to money purchase schemes. Directors who make these decisions (and are close to retirement) have not sacrificed their own final salary schemes for the greater good. 2 large employers, Royal Mail and BT have had the added pressure of downsized workforces making both their schemes in the “serious shortfall” category with no solution in sight. (Less employees means less cash coming in and they have less time to redress the balance.)
Pension companies always quote an ageing population as the reason why we need to get less. Somebody leaked the real impact at 7% only, of which 5% had already been fed into the calculations. Blame the 2% error for everything rather than admit your guys messed up.
Incorrect assumptions about inflation and investment returns are the real reasons.
Current annuity rates are part of the solution. They are very disgracefully poor. Pension companies are clawing back money from everyone now waiting for their slice of pork, because if they do not do this, at some stage, the pork will run out. You cannot blame those whose plates are overflowing from past generosity. They just took the pork offered. I know that over the last 40 years (I started in 1983) we have never failed to double our money from our property business in 10 years. This means an annual return of 7-8% compounded. 3-4% from the rent and 3-4% from the capital is very easy target over a longer period. Pension companies work in a tax free way and we did once buy a property from the Asda Pension fund. The stock market has also performed better than is reflected in annuities. It is important to remember that there is no return of your capital with an annuity, so they are dire indeed.
I think it will take 30-40 years to get us back into a fairer division between existing and future pensioners. The promise made to me and others goes beyond our lifetimes as we are leaving behind our “pension overdrafts” to the rest of you.
Conclusion.
All decisions are a balance between risk and reward.
I am certain the African solution will not work for me, and that waiting for 30 years does not look smart either.
I suppose I ought to declare that I managed to retire aged 47. I am the same age as Bill Gates. Had he not dropped out of Harvard, he could also have retired early.
I have copied and pasted a piece written for someone else.
Hopefully you will find it interesting.
Pensions and their connection to a hog roast.
Pensions are very long term. The African approach is to have as many children as you can, so one or more can support you in your old age. In China the average savings rate is 40% as there are no pensions, healthcare, or education provided by the State.
At Home the State pension only started after WW2. The first company to set up a private pension scheme was BP, know in the oil industry in the 1950’s as Best Pensions. BP set a gold standard of 5% from workers and 10% from themselves.
My Dad, born in 1920, was persuaded to set up his own pension in 1945, when he came out of the army. For £5/month he was guaranteed £50/month when he got to 60. At the time wages were £15-20/week so £50/month was just over half of this. He did struggle a bit to maintain the payments. When he came to collect the money in 1980, inflation had ripped through almost the total value. He said it was the worst financial decision he had made, looking back.
Actuaries are responsible for making the decisions on how pensions are calculated. 2 Big factors are at play. They are investment returns and inflation.
Let me illustrate. In 1986 I became self employed full time. I had an existing pension pot which I could leave or take with me. I decided to take the money. To spread the risk, I opted to split the money 3 ways. One third I used to buy a prepaid pension where I was guaranteed an annual sum at 65 for a minimum of 5 years with 50% going to a spouse on death, standard at the time. Another third I left to roll over. Once bonuses were added to this, they could not be taken away and there was a guaranteed annuity of 10% on the final sum. The last third I used to start a new pension to which I would continue to contribute. The size of my original pot was £5100. The first third gave me a pension of £4350/year. The second rolled over nicely for the first 13 years to be a fraction short of £9k. In 1999 it was frozen never to increase again. I originally hoped things might get better and bonuses would return. Later I realised that this would not happen, but if I moved the money, I would lose the guaranteed annuity. The value of this pension became close to £900/year or just over 20% of the value of my prepaid pension. The final third was doing OK until 2001/2002, when the financial crash put pressure on all pension companies. With the final third I started a new pension to which I did contribute and was supposed to be my main pension in due course. In 2002/3 this company wrote to me, to tell me that to “protect my pension”, they had sold all their shares and bought government and commercial bonds. With pensions being long term, I was furious that this had been done without consulting me, and I was confident shares would recover. It took me nearly 4 months to get my money transferred out. The stock market had recovered by 19% from the selling price by now. 20% of my pension had disappeared. Was I happy……no.
In pension terms the last 70 years has been a game of 2 halves. From 1950 to 1990 there has been good investment returns and high inflation. After 1990 we have had low inflation and poorer investment returns.
Actuaries relied on the trends continuing which has not happened after 1990.
Endowment mortgages were very popular for a long time. You paid only interest on your mortgage and then the capital was repaid from the endowment. Typically homeowners were getting between 25% and 50% of the value of their original loan back as cash when the endowment matured. (The wife’s parents took us out to dinner to celebrate the repayment of their mortgage with the extra money from their endowment. They had bought their house 56 years ago and had a 25 year mortgage like the rest of us). For over 15 years homeowners have been warned that their endowment policies would not be enough to repay their mortgages, and encouraged to take on hybrid mortgages where they increase their payments to pay off some of their capital every month.
Back to pensions. Guarantees made by pension companies have almost always been kept. Equitable Life are the exception. The people who have done best out of the system will all have retired in the 1985-1995 period. Because pensions are so long term, we now know that actuaries have been gambling/using projections based on past performance. They have failed to put anything by, in case they got it wrong.
remember the Hog roast? The piggy looks big enough to serve the queue of people at the start. As time goes by, the guys slicing up the portions realise that there will not be enough pork to go round, so reduce portion size. The piggy is the cash. The queue is the people waiting to receive their pensions, and the slicing is done by actuaries.
Pensions being long term, this has not been so much of a crisis, as long term erosion of pension benefits for those not retired. My promise of £4350/year (now being paid out) cost me £1700 in 1986. 12 years later it would have cost ten times as much to buy the same benefit in the same situation, and 15 years later the product was dropped. That explains why I am very happy with the slice of pork I had “ordered” early.
There is no doubt it will take a very long time to redress the balance between past and future pensions. Final salary schemes have all but disappeared. Companies have all had demands for extra money to fund existing final salary schemes, whilst moving to money purchase schemes. Directors who make these decisions (and are close to retirement) have not sacrificed their own final salary schemes for the greater good. 2 large employers, Royal Mail and BT have had the added pressure of downsized workforces making both their schemes in the “serious shortfall” category with no solution in sight. (Less employees means less cash coming in and they have less time to redress the balance.)
Pension companies always quote an ageing population as the reason why we need to get less. Somebody leaked the real impact at 7% only, of which 5% had already been fed into the calculations. Blame the 2% error for everything rather than admit your guys messed up.
Incorrect assumptions about inflation and investment returns are the real reasons.
Current annuity rates are part of the solution. They are very disgracefully poor. Pension companies are clawing back money from everyone now waiting for their slice of pork, because if they do not do this, at some stage, the pork will run out. You cannot blame those whose plates are overflowing from past generosity. They just took the pork offered. I know that over the last 40 years (I started in 1983) we have never failed to double our money from our property business in 10 years. This means an annual return of 7-8% compounded. 3-4% from the rent and 3-4% from the capital is very easy target over a longer period. Pension companies work in a tax free way and we did once buy a property from the Asda Pension fund. The stock market has also performed better than is reflected in annuities. It is important to remember that there is no return of your capital with an annuity, so they are dire indeed.
I think it will take 30-40 years to get us back into a fairer division between existing and future pensioners. The promise made to me and others goes beyond our lifetimes as we are leaving behind our “pension overdrafts” to the rest of you.
Conclusion.
All decisions are a balance between risk and reward.
I am certain the African solution will not work for me, and that waiting for 30 years does not look smart either.