Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

@IvanDobskey No harm in getting prices now, just be very wary of what they are quoting for, and get many quotes - once you've done one or two you know what information they need and just put it all in an email and send that to various suppliers for a quote.

@HungryHippos

They did indeed come back with a price very quickly, but they failed to read the requirements - I think many are guilty of this.

PV Equipment £6000 11 x Q Cells 390w panels, 3.6kW Solis hybrid inverter, PureDrive 5kW battery
Installation £1900 (does not include scaffold costs)

Total £7900

This was quoted for our north west facing roof as they said they could get more panels on there, and therefore it would produce more than the garage roof.

Now the problem is they have specified a DC coupled battery, so the excess power from our existing system would not charge the battery! That's around 2000kWh of electric sent to the grid and not storage every year, and therefore in my view wasted.
When I queried this I got a rather odd reply.

No- the battery will be isolated to the new system as it is not AC coupled. If we integrate the battery into the old system you will either have to pay 20% VAT on the battery and they are super expensive compared to the system I am quoting you. You would also lose any FIT if I was to integrate/alter the inverter on your current system.
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AC coupled batteries are not super expensive in comparison to DC couple batteries, it would not need to be integrated into the existing system, it can draw its AC supply from the consumer unit, and thus after the generation meter, and thus the original FITS system has not been altered.
Secondly, I think they are mis-interpretting what "If installed as a standalone item, then batteries are also subject to the 20% rate" means, if installed at the same time as solar panels then an AC coupled battery will surely be 0% VAT.
 
Ron-ski said:
@IvanDobskey No harm in getting prices now, just be very wary of what they are quoting for, and get many quotes - once you've done one or two you know what information they need and just put it all in an email and send that to various suppliers for a quote.

@HungryHippos

They did indeed come back with a price very quickly, but they failed to read the requirements - I think many are guilty of this.

PV Equipment £6000 11 x Q Cells 390w panels, 3.6kW Solis hybrid inverter, PureDrive 5kW battery
Installation £1900 (does not include scaffold costs)

Total £7900

This was quoted for our north west facing roof as they said they could get more panels on there, and therefore it would produce more than the garage roof.

Now the problem is they have specified a DC coupled battery, so the excess power from our existing system would not charge the battery! That's around 2000kWh of electric sent to the grid and not storage every year, and therefore in my view wasted.
When I queried this I got a rather odd reply.



AC coupled batteries are not super expensive in comparison to DC couple batteries, it would not need to be integrated into the existing system, it can draw its AC supply from the consumer unit, and thus after the generation meter, and thus the original FITS system has not been altered.
Secondly, I think they are mis-interpretting what "If installed as a standalone item, then batteries are also subject to the 20% rate" means, if installed at the same time as solar panels then an AC coupled battery will surely be 0% VAT.
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Good advice, biggest problem is knowing what you want and not want they want to sell you.
As above, a number of quotes and an understanding how this fits your requirements not theirs, and that includes the threshold of DNO requirements.
If you need to go beyond this don't be swayed by the installer as a lot of the time it's easier to sell you something with less input/hassle.
It's your money at the end of the day hold out, within reason,for what you want from the system.
 
Ron-ski said:
@IvanDobskey No harm in getting prices now, just be very wary of what they are quoting for, and get many quotes - once you've done one or two you know what information they need and just put it all in an email and send that to various suppliers for a quote.

@HungryHippos

They did indeed come back with a price very quickly, but they failed to read the requirements - I think many are guilty of this.

PV Equipment £6000 11 x Q Cells 390w panels, 3.6kW Solis hybrid inverter, PureDrive 5kW battery
Installation £1900 (does not include scaffold costs)

Total £7900

This was quoted for our north west facing roof as they said they could get more panels on there, and therefore it would produce more than the garage roof.

Now the problem is they have specified a DC coupled battery, so the excess power from our existing system would not charge the battery! That's around 2000kWh of electric sent to the grid and not storage every year, and therefore in my view wasted.
When I queried this I got a rather odd reply.



AC coupled batteries are not super expensive in comparison to DC couple batteries, it would not need to be integrated into the existing system, it can draw its AC supply from the consumer unit, and thus after the generation meter, and thus the original FITS system has not been altered.
Secondly, I think they are mis-interpretting what "If installed as a standalone item, then batteries are also subject to the 20% rate" means, if installed at the same time as solar panels then an AC coupled battery will surely be 0% VAT.
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Yes the battery should be 0%VAT if installed at the same time.
 
@HungryHippos I realise it wasn't a recommendation, just giving feedback so others are aware of some of the pitfall's, and as I said I think others that have quoted are guilty of the same thing. I've had emails deleted without being read by at least two companies, you'd think they would be able to manage a reply that simply said sorry, not interested for whatever reason.

I'm still waiting on two quotes, one's my previous installer that said to allow about 4 weeks, so due any time, the other is another local company that came back to me with a load of questions, so I know those two will get back to me.

Other options is I'm trying to get my head around how it all goes together to get a general understanding, and then hopefully do most the install myself, and use an electrician for the electrical work, but finding a willing one may be the stumbling block.

@94JDH Absolutely, they just seem to bash out quotes with no real engagement, part the problem is I guess they are doing so many, so if I get a quote I like then I try to engage more with them.
 
Good luck @Ron-ski I am very interested to see how this solar system I'm getting will perform, it seems at least the timing is good if not getting too ripped off on the install front right now, energy prices continue to only go in one direction.

I was thinking the other day how awesome it would be for something like XCH to allow you to spin up and down individual sets of drives based on power generation from solar! :)

Truly taking advantage of battery level/time of day/how many watts being generated etc. I love tech problems like this.
 
I think you got a very good quote, we paid about £6600 when I add in scaffold costs for our 4kW system in December 2015, so to get 4.4kW and a 8.2kw battery is very good. Is it possible you'll end up with the 9.5kW battery - 8.2's being no longer available?
 
Here's our usage for Tuesday the 26 April, a day we generated 24.3kWh of electric, so a very good day. Between 16:00, and when the panels kicked in the next morning at about 10:30 we used 14.64kWh of electric, so would need a lot of battery, and the ability to charge it fully to see us through the night, but even something like an 8kw battery would make a very good saving on bills, but this is where it gets complicated, and working out pay back period etc.

The graph is half hourly, so 0.4kWh used is 800 watts used continuously per hour.

Usage-26-April.jpg
 
What bugs me about all the company websites I've seen is they all look like Safestyle type places which really puts me off. Seems really hard to find a local independent place that does it.
For around £6k I'd definitely be up for having my Southern roof covered.
 
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robj20 said:
What bugs me about all the company websites I've seen is they all look like Safestyle type places which really puts me off. Seems really hard to find a local independent place that does it.
For around £6 I'd definitely be up for having my Southern roof covered.
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For £6 I'd have all mine and my neighbours covered as well!!
 
Ron-ski said:
Is it possible you'll end up with the 9.5kW battery - 8.2's being no longer available?
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Yes they've said they had to quote me for 8.2KWH but expecting to install 9.5, though they have said it would cost a little more (they expect it will be roughly in line with price per KWH on the battery itself).

Ron-ski said:
even something like an 8kw battery would make a very good saving on bills, but this is where it gets complicated, and working out pay back period etc.
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Yeah it's hard to say I think but I don't think the battery would be a huge loss in any event, and it does give some good options with flexibility as well.
 
robj20 said:
What bugs me about all the company websites I've seen is they all look like Safestyle type places which really puts me off. Seems really hard to find a local independent place that does it.
For around £6k I'd definitely be up for having my Southern roof covered.
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Some near me have outdated websites and look like their trade is registered on a residential house. Maybe they are run these days from direct order cutting out the warehouse/storage. No big outfits near me by the looks of it.
 
gpuerrilla said:
Some near me have outdated websites and look like their trade is registered on a residential house. Maybe they are run these days from direct order cutting out the warehouse/storage. No big outfits near me by the looks of it.
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They mostly are, drop shipped from a handful of the big supplies such as Midsummer and ITS (who also use midsummer).
 
Im just starting my what do I really want journey

I am always 50/50 on which but they have some fairly nice guides at times, they have quite a lot on solar

Solar panels advice guides - Which?

Best brands of solar PV panels reviewed by Which?, based on auditing solar panel factories. Find out how Sharp, Kyocera and Canadian Solar did in our tests.
www.which.co.uk www.which.co.uk

I will add any links I find that I feel add to the above as I go.
I'm trying to find some better more in depth guides on the inverters as I believe there are 3 in effect, normal, micro and edge (like a normal but can handle a shaded panel etc)

Edit : So this explains the three techs better and usefully explains the warranties are normally better on the more expensive tech.
www.spiritenergy.co.uk

Micro-Inverters and Solar Panel Optimisers - Spirit Energy

Micro-inverters and power optimisers are an upgrade on traditional PV system design, maximising the electricity generated from each individual panel.
www.spiritenergy.co.uk www.spiritenergy.co.uk

So there are in a way three techs to choose from, which will be partly a decision based on location, partly on cost, partly on how much risk you want vs potentially higher output.
 
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My neighbours are having panels installed today, figured I'd check the site out and arrange a free quote.

Home - ECH Group

ECH Group have extensive experience in all types of Solar PV installations, including a range of roof types, ground mount installations.
echgroup.co.uk echgroup.co.uk

Never heard of them before and I've no idea if the prices are competitive but it's got me thinking.
 
Ron-ski said:
Here's our usage for Tuesday the 26 April, a day we generated 24.3kWh of electric, so a very good day. Between 16:00, and when the panels kicked in the next morning at about 10:30 we used 14.64kWh of electric, so would need a lot of battery, and the ability to charge it fully to see us through the night, but even something like an 8kw battery would make a very good saving on bills, but this is where it gets complicated, and working out pay back period etc.

The graph is half hourly, so 0.4kWh used is 800 watts used continuously per hour.

Usage-26-April.jpg
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Do you generate that excess all year?

The maths are pretty easy, approx:

.30 per khw unit price (give or take)

If you have an 8kw battery, that's £2.4 saved per evening.

x365 days = £876 per year.

Call it 10 years for battery life =£8760.

However, that's assuming two things:

A. You generate 8kwh excess all year round

B. You use 8kwh outside of your panel generation time

Because if either of those drop so does your saving.

If you don't mind me asking do you have the statistics of how much excess you generate during December, and what size solar system you have?
 
BUDFORCE said:
Call it 10 years for battery life =£8760.
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But the batteries like GivEnergy have a warranty for 10 years at 100% DoD for the larger packs, so it would be more like 15-20 years of useful life, obviously there will be degradation, but as the loads are generally low for most of the life they aren't worked hard.
 
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