Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

KompuKare said:
Thanks.
They have tons of logos and stuff:
fx6PPEp.jpg

but no RECC :(

Seems that your installer is better than ours then. Even with going via the regulators, they won't even acknowledge there's anything wrong.

HIES's inspector came back and dismissed our figures in no time at all (they were the jokers who insisted that any complaint we made to our installer had to be via registered mail and each time give them 14 days), I cannot see how the even looked at them and we supplied the whole inverter logs plus our calculations and also figured I got by using a power meter and consuming a load (boiling bunch of kettles) and those results were very close to the inverters logs - the rest were probably baseline stuff like the router, fridge etc.
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For mine I used input from inverter and input from grid as backup.
Mine is supposed to be 11kwh usable. Minimum soc is 10%.
Most charges are around the 9.5-10 mark, but the inverter data is only accurate to 5 minutes and looks like its a snapshot in time as opposed to a weighted number.

Although mine was simple. 11kwh absolute minimum for input from 10% SOC. It charges at 5.5kw so 11/5.5 = 2. It needs 2 hours minium. Most days it was charging for 1hr 40 mins.
Unless they have broken the laws of physics thats impossible ;)

I would look to do that if you can.
I need to adjust my octopus for baseload, but end up with a very similar number to the inverter over 2 hours. Plus even ignoring baseload, the Octopus numbers fall short of what it should take in.
Hasnt stopped them on multiple occasions looking at a partly depleted battery and saying its fine.

FWIW my batteries are outside and struggled in the peak of winter cold (lets forget they are supposed to be heated and that was turned off).
I built a simple frame for them with insulation in and it helped a lot with temps.
You could probably do similar if your struggling in the loft.
Even add a small thermostat controlled tube heater would probably keep them warm enough that they charge properly.
When charging and discharging they do generate some warmth (from current moving) so its kind of a chicken and egg situation if they stop charging/discharging nothing is generating any heat
 
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I have PIR left over so I could build a rig with that for next winter. There is enough space beside the batteries so I could make a box for only them and leave the inverter alone. Luckily after the battery firmware update it now should only need 5°C+.

We don't charge from the mains, but while our inverter also only updates every 5 mins, I think the overall SOC% and cumulative total produced/consumed/charged/discharge are accurate and that's what I used to do my calculations. Charging / discharging W is indeed every 5 mins and pretty useless - I tried * 12 on those figures but that gave nothing useful.

Still, charging from the mains and using that for calculations could another nice data point... For our installers and regulators to ignore :(
 
What you really want to do is find a day when the sun is looking like it's going to be pretty bad.

Force the battery down to empty by the end of the day (say empty by 00:00).

Set a charge overnight for a specific time where the battery can fully charge from the grid from zero. (say 01:00 - 05:00).

This lets you calculate how much goes into the battery from grid, without solar, and hopefully without anyone really using much so consumption doesn't really feed into it.

You'll eat some costs for importing kWh but it will let you measure max speed and how much it brings in, even better if your smart meter can show the data and also you can easily work out consumption in the charge window.
 
HungryHippos said:
By contrast my GE system I'm pretty sure I'm getting the full 8.2 kWh it advertises, or near enough not to matter.

No system is perfect but GE at least seems to reasonably do what it says it will do so far!
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I get down to ~5% before it goes to feeding from grid, minimum is 4% the reserve on my 13.5 aio (0.54kw) and it seems to cut off just before it ticks over to that but connection has been spotty so not managed to fully monitor it every five minutes to get used to any patterns.
 
HungryHippos said:
What you really want to do is find a day when the sun is looking like it's going to be pretty bad.

Force the battery down to empty by the end of the day (say empty by 00:00).

Set a charge overnight for a specific time where the battery can fully charge from the grid from zero. (say 01:00 - 05:00).

This lets you calculate how much goes into the battery from grid, without solar, and hopefully without anyone really using much so consumption doesn't really feed into it.

You'll eat some costs for importing kWh but it will let you measure max speed and how much it brings in, even better if your smart meter can show the data and also you can easily work out consumption in the charge window.
Click to expand...
Seconded on this. And then if it is not what it should be then I’d be trying the same but one battery at a time to rule out a single faulty battery (/ configuration) or not.
 
Okay, I will have to look at charging from the mains. So far that has always been off and the inverter has a one line display and a few poor buttons so I imagine programming is a bit worse than programming an old fashioned central heating controller.

Without changing things, the min SOC level is 16%. Safer I guess but maybe a bit OTT.

What I don't want to do is anything which is obvious on the logger in case the installer ever bothers to respond to me - so that they can't say I damaged anything in their installation.
SBo said:
Also do you know if your inverter uses canbus rather than RS485?
Click to expand...
Think it can use both:
If inverter is connected with lithium
battery, it supports communication CAN & RS485, communication connecting steps please refer
to Chapter 4.4.2.
Click to expand...
What I am less sure about is what the installer used. The inverter does see the SOC and the DIP switches on the primary are set up for the inverter.

Without buying a console cable I cannot access any logs the battery may have.
SBo said:
On first glance looks ok. 6a mcb will be off as they’re just using it as a blank I expect. They should have labelled.

What’s max DoD is it set to?

Ignoring SOC for a moment, how does grid import compare to what you would expect through the day and post sunset?

(Dongle should be set to join your Wi-Fi and then the WAP function password changed to something that isn’t insecure.)
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Well the initial electrician was messy. Their excuse: he doesn't work for us anymore which is a favourite excuse of theirs judging from the Trustpilot reviews :(

Unsure where I'd find max DoD. Inverter full log output is 95 columns wide but no hit on that. Depth of Discharge? Well min the inverter will allow the SOC to discharge to is 16%.

Columns mentioning charge or discharge include:
  1. Total Charging Energy(kWh)
  2. Total Discharging Energy(kWh)
  3. Daily Charging Energy(kWh)
  4. Daily Discharging Energy(kWh)
  5. EPS Discharge Capacity Of The Day(kWh)
  6. EPS Dharging Capacity Of The Day(kWh)
  7. Total EPS Discharge(kWh)
  8. Total EPS Charge(kWh)
(Yes, looks like Afore have made spelling mistake in #6.)

We have never imported. It is something to consider for the autumn and winter but ATM we have far more electricity than we use.

Thanks, changing the access point's password is something I will do.
 
KompuKare said:
Okay, I will have to look at charging from the mains. So far that has always been off and the inverter has a one line display and a few poor buttons so I imagine programming is a bit worse than programming an old fashioned central heating controller.
Click to expand...

Don't you have access to an online portal where you can view the data and change the settings? Is it this? https://home.aforenergy.com/login
 
KompuKare said:
Okay, I will have to look at charging from the mains. So far that has always been off and the inverter has a one line display and a few poor buttons so I imagine programming is a bit worse than programming an old fashioned central heating controller.

Without changing things, the min SOC level is 16%. Safer I guess but maybe a bit OTT.

What I don't want to do is anything which is obvious on the logger in case the installer ever bothers to respond to me - so that they can't say I damaged anything in their installation.

Think it can use both:

What I am less sure about is what the installer used. The inverter does see the SOC and the DIP switches on the primary are set up for the inverter.

Without buying a console cable I cannot access any logs the battery may have.

Well the initial electrician was messy. Their excuse: he doesn't work for us anymore which is a favourite excuse of theirs judging from the Trustpilot reviews :(

Unsure where I'd find max DoD. Inverter full log output is 95 columns wide but no hit on that. Depth of Discharge? Well min the inverter will allow the SOC to discharge to is 16%.

Columns mentioning charge or discharge include:
  1. Total Charging Energy(kWh)
  2. Total Discharging Energy(kWh)
  3. Daily Charging Energy(kWh)
  4. Daily Discharging Energy(kWh)
  5. EPS Discharge Capacity Of The Day(kWh)
  6. EPS Dharging Capacity Of The Day(kWh)
  7. Total EPS Discharge(kWh)
  8. Total EPS Charge(kWh)
(Yes, looks like Afore have made spelling mistake in #6.)

We have never imported. It is something to consider for the autumn and winter but ATM we have far more electricity than we use.

Thanks, changing the access point's password is something I will do.
Click to expand...

Have you setup the web portal thingy?

Normally it seems you need to activate your inverter using the inverter serial or a dongle or something (maybe other equip) in an account.

Then you should be able to see something like this

A lot of install companies use sub contractors for the elecs. All or part of the time.
 
Should definitely have some kind of smart portal thing to allow for changes and viewing data! Most of them seem to do similar ones.

From what I've seen GE has the most comprehensive one of them all, though the Solax stuff MKW showed me looked alright as well.
 
I do have the Android app (not on the Google Play Store though).

Was one of the first things the first electrician wasn't able to do ("I don't get paid to set up stuff like this"... no wonder he left then!), and although the installer missed the web portal I was able to set that up too.

That's where I go to export my logs.

However, there are no settings there just things to view.

That's via the URL SBo linked: https://home.aforenergy.com/plant/infos/data

Not the best site and for a number of weeks they hadn't paid for their cert which made it hard to access until they finally renewed their cert.

The URL Mercenary Keyboard Warrior linked to, I have not seen. That does look a lot fancier.

Maybe the installer has to set that part up, as it doesn't use my password and doesn't know my email for password reset.

The second electrician did say that the app cannot set up anything. That was right after he came to setup the app after the first electrician failed and it was also the closest he ever came to saying that mis-sold Intelligent Battery does not exists - on subsequent visits he seems to have stuck to the company script of "everything is fine".

Wonder if it is possible that Afore UK's Demo Property View actually exists or is an UI mock-up? The demo doesn't have any settings either though.

I have been reluctant to contact the manufacturer as I feel our installer should do that, but aside from taking them to court or finding the regulator's regulator and getting them to force the installer to do something, it seem we are on our own.
 
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You're not going to get any further with your installer and a small claims court isn't going to "get it" at this point. You think and have some data implying that your battery isn't being utilised as fully as it should. Your installer says your system is working fine.

We need to work out if one/both of your batteries are functioning correctly in terms of charging off excess solar and grid, and then discharging back to your house. The wiring looks OK so there's a few things to work through; configuration mistake, faulty data cable, a faulty battery, a faulty inverter.

Battery instructions are quite clear: https://www.pytesusa.com/support/1442.html. Agree the dip switch configuration looks fine. Can you give us a close-up of the wiring shown on page 17 https://www.aforenergy.com/uploads/206050928.pdf. CAN and RS485 are quite easy to mix up. I'd also swap the master and slave batteries around and try that.

I would be asking Afore to change your account from a User to an Admin and then pulling the settings out from their portal. The dongle will need to be setup to join your wifi if it isn't already.

What does your half hourly Octopus meter read look like on a typical day?

Have you watched the charging/discharge leds on your batteries during the day? In the photo they are fully charged, if you switch off the DC isolator for the panels are they discharging? How long do they discharge for? Estimate capacity from your house base load and duration they last for.

They are 90% DoD batteries so you should be looking for about 9kwh. 3.6kw max discharge clearly so anything in addition will come from the grid, but ~2.5 hours of run time at full load.

Re the electrical install; the tails should have been supported with cable cleats (a relatively new requirement, 18th Edition BS7671 IIRC so 2021) but the rest looks reasonable eg. they've glanded correctly, used a decent brand in Fusebox, used type A RCD etc. I hope those tails are <3m and double insulated, those old red/black ones look a bit vulnerable. Ie. not a huge deal, we've seen much worse in this thread..!
 
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Thanks @SBo that will keep me busy.
For now I got new photos of the wiring below the inverter. A bit hard to get decent focus in the loft even with a torch:
VX3j1ZS.jpg

e1vUUU9.jpg

So that looks they only used COM1 for both as later they splice that cable:
NomVlah.jpg

the black goes to the battery while the grey goes downstairs by winding it's way across the loft. The first electrician did not even attempt to cable tie the grey to the armoured cable going downstairs and didn't use any clips anywhere so it is totally lose up there. At least he left some slack so I could crawl in there and secure them somewhat with cable ties or clips.

So 4 & 5 are use for the battery, while 7 and 8 go downstairs.

Dark overcast today, so the SOC% is down to 30% and this is what that looks like with the battery lights:
V3EcH1l.png

They are flashing and the slave actually was 3 + flash whereas the master was 1 flashing only.

Doesn't look like the battery discharged evenly.

Will see if MKW is correct and Afore can get me set up with a different account but one thing I recall is the installer's second electrician saying that they only way to get the battery to charge from the mains is from the little one line display thing and that the app does not expose anything. Maybe he neglected to say that there is a webpage with admin permissions which can do this, or maybe it does not exist. I did see the installers setup guide when the first electrician wasn't able to get it working and that did say the app was very limited.

Anyway, I will try a few things over the week.

To disconnect the batteries be able to test them individually, what is the correct sequence?
F03Ngqv.jpg

  1. Turn off all the switches upstairs starting from the right so
    1. Solar first (black in the above)
    2. Then the red one
    3. Then pull out the switches the left of the inverter.
  2. Turn off batteries by their switches.
  3. Do your stuff
Or am I missing something? To turn back on I presume it is the reverse?
 
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Cool. I think you mean Com 2 for both.

Hard to imagine that the web portal is that useless tbh.

Agree that the batteries shouldn't be discharging unevenly like that. What happens once the master is drained?

To switch off press the red button down for a couple of seconds, the battery then goes to sleep, then switch it off at the toggle switch. Repeat for both. Pull the main plastic fuse handle out to disconnect if you want to be double sure. Switch back on the other way around. https://www.altestore.com/static/datafiles/Others/Pytes E-BOX-48100R User Manual.pdf

Then when they're off, swap the pos and neg leads to the opposite battery, the data cables, the dip switches, then switch back on in reverse order.
I hope the grounding cables are all joined somewhere (inverter, batt 1 and batt 2).
 
Okay, tried it with only battery #1 (the one which was master) and charging it from 01:00 until 04:00.
Results:
WhenWhatSOC%[Daily Charging Energy(kWh)]
2023-08-01 01:00:00​
Battery at min
16​
0.00​
2023-08-01 03:55:00​
Battery charged
99​
3.00​
SOC change & calculated capacity
83%​
3.61​
Well, 3.6 times two is still more than than I usually calculate.

The Afore web page and the logs agree on the 3.00 kWh charge:
CM6WUYD.png

Since I took out the 2nd battery yesterday, my usual discharge calculation wasn't valid for that day, so I intend to leave it at that one battery today too. I'll test battery #2 later in the week.

And if that is not conclusive, I will try with both again but reverse who is master and slave.

The 16% min does seem a bit too conservative so I could change that to 10% but not until I am done with testing.
 
KompuKare said:
Okay, tried it with only battery #1 (the one which was master) and charging it from 01:00 until 04:00.
Results:
WhenWhatSOC%[Daily Charging Energy(kWh)]
2023-08-01 01:00:00​
Battery at min
16​
0.00​
2023-08-01 03:55:00​
Battery charged
99​
3.00​
SOC change & calculated capacity
83%​
3.61​
Well, 3.6 times two is still more than than I usually calculate.

The Afore web page and the logs agree on the 3.00 kWh charge:
CM6WUYD.png

Since I took out the 2nd battery yesterday, my usual discharge calculation wasn't valid for that day, so I intend to leave it at that one battery today too. I'll test battery #2 later in the week.

And if that is not conclusive, I will try with both again but reverse who is master and slave.

The 16% min does seem a bit too conservative so I could change that to 10% but not until I am done with testing.
Click to expand...

Your batts are supposed to be 5.1kwh with 10% minimum SOC, ie 4.6kwh usable in effect?
Although with 16% your probably approx 4.3 usable. Still much like my situation, 3 vs 4.3 is some difference.

Just a note. And this could be behind some of your issues, they generally say the batteries should be the same SOC when added to the system.
The ability of the BMS to charge and discharge batteries with differing SOC is weak from most peoples experience and most manufacturers recommend the same.
So I would make sure that you fully charge, or fully discharge both individually before you add them back together.
 
Yes, that both SOC% were the same was the only thing their 2nd electrician did test before declaring all was well. I'll charge them fully putting both back on. Mains charge is going to up to 99% then a bit of usage in the morning - even an overcast day should have it back to 99% (I've seldom seen 100%) by lunchtime.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
@SBo
When I queried if the inverter could cause any issues the installer said no.
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The installer said no might as well be the slogan of solar industries!

While the regulator's slogan might be something off, or get lost!
 
That is interesting. Change the cut-off SoC to 10% on the inverter and discharge it so it does a full discharge/recharge.

The charge rate seems very slow.

Were all the leds showing as fully charged this morning on that battery?

We can then compare to the other battery. That should identify a battery cell issue versus something else.
 
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