Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Okay, will change the min SoC to 10% and try it again after sunset.
Charge time wasn't actually that bad, I just took the 04:00 figure as that was when it was set to stop but it had reached its 99% a lot sooner:
So about 75 mins from 16% to 99%. Obviously it tapers off when it reached 95% but I don't mind the BMS protecting the battery!
EDIT:
Thanks, I will have a look at what the setup for the battery is if I can find it!
Charge time wasn't actually that bad, I just took the 04:00 figure as that was when it was set to stop but it had reached its 99% a lot sooner:
So about 75 mins from 16% to 99%. Obviously it tapers off when it reached 95% but I don't mind the BMS protecting the battery!
EDIT:
Thanks, I will have a look at what the setup for the battery is if I can find it!
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Soldato
it's weird that the charging bit seems to keep on going at -0.4kW even after SOC is 99%.
Your charge rate is probably mainly in the bit where it got to 95% then as that is fairly linear.
Your charge rate is probably mainly in the bit where it got to 95% then as that is fairly linear.
On the other hand, most battery charging things do the ramp-off at the end to not wear the battery too much. For my phone I keep meaning to get a smart plug and see if I can automate it to stop charging after 90% as the last 10% put a huge amount of the wear on the batteries. Although a recent update on the phone does let it charge slower anyhow as it now tries to predict when I get up.
There's a long thread about Pytes batteries and some similar issues to yours with 2 or more Pytes batteries "the SOC jumping about" and uneven discharging. Discussed here: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/dlg-e-box-48100r-testing-and-tinkering.37556/page-6
I've only had time to scan 3 pages but some interesting bits so far; 1) they seem to be a copy of Pylontech batteries so using the Pylontech settings on the inverter has worked for some 2) using RS485 instead of CANBUS worked for someone 3) updating the battery firmware fixed the problem.
I still think do the full charge/discharge for both batteries one by one, and then we can take it from there. Asking Pytes for the firmware update and process might be a sensible play after that but it's also quite easy to switch to RS485 on your inverter and see if that fixes it.
I've only had time to scan 3 pages but some interesting bits so far; 1) they seem to be a copy of Pylontech batteries so using the Pylontech settings on the inverter has worked for some 2) using RS485 instead of CANBUS worked for someone 3) updating the battery firmware fixed the problem.
I still think do the full charge/discharge for both batteries one by one, and then we can take it from there. Asking Pytes for the firmware update and process might be a sensible play after that but it's also quite easy to switch to RS485 on your inverter and see if that fixes it.
So, that's all gone pear shaped 
I set the min SOC to 10% and certainly did not intend to change anything else.
Now the controls on that inverter are poor. Really poor:
you basically have those four buttons and the barely register - just as well that the beep.
I did look at some of the other parameters but I though I did not change anything. However, I now get this error:
Pretty sure I did not jiggle the wires (that RJ45 breakout thing does look fragile), so did I inadvertently set the wrong meter type?
Available types it cycles through are Afore / Afore 3 / UKOB418 / UKOB115 / ADL200 / ADL400 (and then it repeats - so up or down could have change something and then if I had pressed enter instead of back...).
No idea which is correct. I did look at that menu earlier and I think it must have been around the Afore.
Not even sure what the meter does. That is the meter thing beside the inverter, but the cables running to that don't look like they include comms.
What does run down is the breakout cable they have coming out of COM2 but downstairs in consumer unit all I see is some kind of coil / meter type thing which is wound around the mains cable. Only two wires go to that.
Before it all broke, I did note down the battery settings.
So at least the have set the correct battery manufacturer.
I also got our Octopus half hourly figures:
We've only been with Octopus since May and we have basically used almost nothing.
I set the min SOC to 10% and certainly did not intend to change anything else.
Now the controls on that inverter are poor. Really poor:
you basically have those four buttons and the barely register - just as well that the beep.
I did look at some of the other parameters but I though I did not change anything. However, I now get this error:
Pretty sure I did not jiggle the wires (that RJ45 breakout thing does look fragile), so did I inadvertently set the wrong meter type?
Available types it cycles through are Afore / Afore 3 / UKOB418 / UKOB115 / ADL200 / ADL400 (and then it repeats - so up or down could have change something and then if I had pressed enter instead of back...).
No idea which is correct. I did look at that menu earlier and I think it must have been around the Afore.
Not even sure what the meter does. That is the meter thing beside the inverter, but the cables running to that don't look like they include comms.
What does run down is the breakout cable they have coming out of COM2 but downstairs in consumer unit all I see is some kind of coil / meter type thing which is wound around the mains cable. Only two wires go to that.
Before it all broke, I did note down the battery settings.
| Lithium | Pytes |
| VBatMax | 61.0 V |
| VBatMin | 40.0 V |
| IChargeMax | 77.04 A |
| IDChargeMax | 78.0 A |
I also got our Octopus half hourly figures:
We've only been with Octopus since May and we have basically used almost nothing.
Have you had any luck from SP yet? I just got access to one portal from them to submit my bank details with my supplier number. (They had details as part of application but had to upload again). Still no way to submit a meter reading.
To get to this point had taken 16 months, dozens of chase emails and at least 4 phone calls. I submitted application with opening reading on 30th March 2022. First reading 114. Current reading >4200 so they better back date this. Not sure how they will work out rate as some was due on their old 5.5p rate.
Soldato
@KompuKare The meter you show is the generation meter, the meter you refer to on the inverter is likely to be the coil / meter type thing which is wound around the mains cable, but I suggest Googling the meter types, and comparing to what you have, and reading the manual.
Soldato
Unfortunately yes. A very long time. I am aware of a neighbour who had their done last June who is still waiting too. You will need to continually chase.
I was told in Jan they had all paperwork and I just needed an account on their portal. Just getting an account took until end of July after they confirmed all paperwork and export mpan were present.
I was told in Jan they had all paperwork and I just needed an account on their portal. Just getting an account took until end of July after they confirmed all paperwork and export mpan were present.
Thanks, figured that out this morning.
EICT-120K-T210C
Only hits for that are other inverter manuals though.
If the only choices are
Afore / Afore 3 / UKOB418 / UKOB115 / ADL200 / ADL400
then at worst I can try each at time. Question is, should I restart the inverter each time, or not?
Searching for the ADL and UBOB ones I get fancy ones with LCD displays, so it really looks like they cannot be right ones. Leaving only either Afore or Afore 3.
And Afore 3, seems to have cleared the error now. I though I had tried that yesterday
Soldato
Thanks, figured that out this morning.
EICT-120K-T210C
Only hits for that are other inverter manuals though.
If the only choices are
Afore / Afore 3 / UKOB418 / UKOB115 / ADL200 / ADL400
then at worst I can try each at time. Question is, should I restart the inverter each time, or not?
Searching for the ADL and UBOB ones I get fancy ones with LCD displays, so it really looks like they cannot be right ones. Leaving only either Afore or Afore 3.
And Afore 3, seems to have cleared the error now. I though I had tried that yesterday
Normally (but its not a rule across manufacturers) when you have meters like uber and uber 3 the 3 will refer to 3 phase with the one without the 3 being the normal one.
Okay, that makes sense. While Afore 3 did clear the error and the error disappeared from the app and webpage, I noticed it wasn't measuring consumption while Octopus / smart meter thing were. So when back up and it was on error. Now on Afore with a number and it seems to be working. Will leave it all alone now for a while - not even going to set the min SoC% back to 10% for now.
Have to say I find the whole solar industry, and the so-light-a-touch-we-might-as-well-call-it-No-Touch regulator all really poor. Cowboys galore, shouldn't really be this hard to get the installer to stand by what they mis-sold. Personally I think I had more than enough proof that the batteries do not work correctly even before trying the charge from the grid approach. Just hoping that with the extra proof from the charging from the grid, it will become irrefutable.
Have to say I find the whole solar industry, and the so-light-a-touch-we-might-as-well-call-it-No-Touch regulator all really poor. Cowboys galore, shouldn't really be this hard to get the installer to stand by what they mis-sold. Personally I think I had more than enough proof that the batteries do not work correctly even before trying the charge from the grid approach. Just hoping that with the extra proof from the charging from the grid, it will become irrefutable.
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Soldato
This is the issue for sure, regulation is light touch. Its also a difficult area since you wont always get the numbers on things, batteries dont like being excessively cold, panels dont like being excessively hot etc
I think my issue with installers is a few fold.
They aren't all direct employees, many use sub contractors, even if just for filling in holidays etc. Work will vary based on this.
They aren't all technical. So if it all works great, if not, errr "nah its working fine guv"
Manufacturers seem to have as many issues, but its variable, I again suspect mainly due to staff, but also geography
Solax who manufactured my kit seem to have a semi useless support team, slow, and just write nonsense. Again going with the "nah its working fine guv" as they cannot work out whats wrong either.
I think if you want to be safe(r) you either go Victron because the capabilities and user base are high you should be ok, or at the moment Giveenergy seem good. I suspect mainly as UK based so UK support.
But the main issue for me is installers. You cant really expect them to be super technical, but if they cannot get the support they need from the manufacturer they seem to mainly go "meh"
I think my issue with installers is a few fold.
They aren't all direct employees, many use sub contractors, even if just for filling in holidays etc. Work will vary based on this.
They aren't all technical. So if it all works great, if not, errr "nah its working fine guv"
Manufacturers seem to have as many issues, but its variable, I again suspect mainly due to staff, but also geography
Solax who manufactured my kit seem to have a semi useless support team, slow, and just write nonsense. Again going with the "nah its working fine guv" as they cannot work out whats wrong either.
I think if you want to be safe(r) you either go Victron because the capabilities and user base are high you should be ok, or at the moment Giveenergy seem good. I suspect mainly as UK based so UK support.
But the main issue for me is installers. You cant really expect them to be super technical, but if they cannot get the support they need from the manufacturer they seem to mainly go "meh"
Well the regulators are a major gripe of mine.
That HIES agent immediately took the installer's side. Totally unprofessional and biased. Then went on about it is the manufacturer who has to sort this. That's why asked about how Sales of Goods works with supply and install. Normal retail sales are 100% clear - the seller has to sort it. Supplying, choosing and selling a complete system should be similar but that the regulator wiggles out for the installer before even talking to them - that is a new low.
But who is the regulator's regulator? The minster maybe? The whole regulations about mis-selling are very narrow and were only brought in because the installer sales people were complete liars - but it seems anything which isn't 100% covered by that is fair game - MCS basically seem to let their members get away with anything and HIES as well.
I am really not one for titles, but every company selling solar system should have a solar engineer who can diagnose issues which aren't simple - and that should be part of MCS etc.
Maybe not super technical, but I suspect that the owner of my installer just got a good deal on poorly supported kit and doesn't care whether it causes issues. Why should they when the "regulators" take their side as long as the company pays their fees. The only time it would negatively affect them is if someone takes them to court, which must be rare enough.
That HIES agent immediately took the installer's side. Totally unprofessional and biased. Then went on about it is the manufacturer who has to sort this. That's why asked about how Sales of Goods works with supply and install. Normal retail sales are 100% clear - the seller has to sort it. Supplying, choosing and selling a complete system should be similar but that the regulator wiggles out for the installer before even talking to them - that is a new low.
But who is the regulator's regulator? The minster maybe? The whole regulations about mis-selling are very narrow and were only brought in because the installer sales people were complete liars - but it seems anything which isn't 100% covered by that is fair game - MCS basically seem to let their members get away with anything and HIES as well.
I am really not one for titles, but every company selling solar system should have a solar engineer who can diagnose issues which aren't simple - and that should be part of MCS etc.
Maybe not super technical, but I suspect that the owner of my installer just got a good deal on poorly supported kit and doesn't care whether it causes issues. Why should they when the "regulators" take their side as long as the company pays their fees. The only time it would negatively affect them is if someone takes them to court, which must be rare enough.
In the meantime you could e-mail Pytes, expain your issue and ask for the firmware update process. That thread I posted reads a lot like your issue (page 9) and it is closely associated with battery temperature and specific firmware versions so Pytes should be aware of this issue. For the summer a full charge/discharge of each should get your batteries back in SOC sync and working well.
My Pylontechs are in my house attached garage where my boiler is so it's warmer than ambient and even then in winter I have boxed them in 18mm MDF (no lid) to avoid them going into fault on really cold nights.
My Pylontechs are in my house attached garage where my boiler is so it's warmer than ambient and even then in winter I have boxed them in 18mm MDF (no lid) to avoid them going into fault on really cold nights.
Soldato
Thing is there are also multiple bodies as well.
All seemingly heavily biased to installers. The RECC I mentioned previously was the one that I took most confidence may be useful.
You have the option to try trading standards if you think its heavily missold.
Its going to need some government input at some point IMO.
What would be ideal is a way to refer it to someone who can add a level of diagnosis above the installers.
They cant all be expected to be super technical.
I have had 3 visits from the sparkie (or one of them) that my installer uses. I know hes employed by them as he told me, but hes not a solar expert as such. Hes good, but hes got no specific tools.
Eg to really test a battery you need to fully charge or discharge (ideally both) with load monitoring. Hes got no tool to do that.
All seemingly heavily biased to installers. The RECC I mentioned previously was the one that I took most confidence may be useful.
You have the option to try trading standards if you think its heavily missold.
Its going to need some government input at some point IMO.
What would be ideal is a way to refer it to someone who can add a level of diagnosis above the installers.
They cant all be expected to be super technical.
I have had 3 visits from the sparkie (or one of them) that my installer uses. I know hes employed by them as he told me, but hes not a solar expert as such. Hes good, but hes got no specific tools.
Eg to really test a battery you need to fully charge or discharge (ideally both) with load monitoring. Hes got no tool to do that.
Inverters are on a level with domestic gas boilers. Plumbers have to be registered as gas safe ie a minimum qualification and then attend courses hosted by the boiler manufacturers. They also have the boiler manufacturers at the end of the phone and are able to ask them to visit sites for complex issues that are beyond them. Little of that for solar outside of GivEnergy, myenergi, Victron, Tesla ie. the expensive brands.
But it's also an emerging industry so it will mature with time.
But it's also an emerging industry so it will mature with time.
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Applied last week, I will get comfortable...! Not sure I trust their process so I am going to keep reporting my readings to British Gas who I'm with currently. A bird in the hand and all.
I bet SP cut their seg rate soon... they can't deal with the demand and make clear that it is a variable tariff.