Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[ChroniC]

I guess the question is, are the benefits of solar, the usage or the sale of excess energy..
The cost saving from a DIY job seems to be completely pointless if you can't get a SEG cert and sell anything back to the grid.
In summer if your not using much electricity there can be no benefit other than selling excess surely.

 

[tamzzy]

both, but your ROI will be measured in years (6-10+, depending on your choice of components)
octopus will accept self-installs iirc, other operators won't though.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

So I now have a revised quote for 16 panels plus PW3 and a comparison quote from another London installer + an estimate from Octopus:

Quote 1: £16.5k
Quote 2: £15.5k
Octopus: £16-16.8k estimate

Getting all three out to fully survey but suggests the London tax is real / I need to start negotiating on pricing assuming there is a massive margin built into all three quotes.

If you are inside the M25 then its not completely unreasonable but it is expensive.

For context, I live in the East of England and my installation was £16.5k for:
23 panel (9 east, 14 west)
8k Solis Inverter
13.5kwh GivEnergy 'All in One' with gateway
Bird meshing
Scaffold on 2 sides of the house.

The GivEnergy battery is cheaper than the Tesla PW3 but you don't need a separate solar inverter so they are not that far off in reality. Tesla tends to carry a bit of installer margin because its 'premium' despite being no more difficult to install than my GivEnergy system and if anything, its easier now with the PW3.

Prices have dropped further since I got mine installed so bear that in mind. While I'm not in not London in terms of labour rates, its not cheap either, mainline train station to London and within commuting distance of Cambridge pushes up prices a lot.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I've seen full kits, inverters etc for a little over 2.5k.. Are batteries worth the extra or is the storage capacity to low for the cost? Is a 10kw battery going to sod all to warranty the cost?

Batteries have similar ROI to the solar itself IF you combine them with time of use tariffs.

There is a sweet spot of battery size though, its not simply a case of more = more return. The return starts falling off once you can cover the majority of your daily usage on battery.

I recharge my battery from the grid overnight all year round, I import electric for 7p, I can export solar for 15p. Sure I'm drawing more from the grid than I 'need to' but its increasing my return on investment.

 

[ChroniC]

So a weird wild thought, what's the point of me putting the money into solar on my house. With the amount of fields available in the UK, why is there not a scheme where I can put in money to just add more panels to cheaper existing structure, then somehow they workout what my cut back is...
Doesn't matter where the panels are if the electricity always get used somewhere or returns to the grid..

It would eventually be a slow investment and a huge benefit to a green economy no?

 

[Stu999]

So a weird wild thought, what's the point of me putting the money into solar on my house. With the amount of fields available in the UK, why is there not a scheme where I can put in money to just add more panels to cheaper existing structure, then somehow they workout what my cut back is...
Doesn't matter where the panels are if the electricity always get used somewhere or returns to the grid..

It would eventually be a slow investment and a huge benefit to a green economy no?

Don’t know if there is one for solar but there is Ripple for wind power.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Ripple do Solar also but IMO, the return is both rose than installing your own solar and other investment vehicles*

*this is not financial advice

With the amount of fields available in the UK, why is there not a scheme where I can put in money to just add more panels to cheaper existing structure, then somehow they workout what my cut back is...
Doesn't matter where the panels are if the electricity always get used somewhere or returns to the grid..

Fire up BBC iPlayer and watch todays 18:30 edition of Look East (local news for the East of England) and you'll soon see why.... (NIMBYs)

You can also sort of see their point, The Range just built a new 1.4m square foot warehouse just off the A14 in Suffolk, it has Solar but the pictures on google maps show only about 5-10% of the roof space has been utilised. That's the sort of thing that would trigger @Ron-ski and well most people who regularly post in this thread

 

[tamzzy]

Batteries have similar ROI to the solar itself IF you combine them with time of use tariffs.
There is a sweet spot of battery size though, its not simply a case of more = more return. The return starts falling off once you can cover the majority of your daily usage on battery.
I recharge my battery from the grid overnight all year round, I import electric for 7p, I can export solar for 15p. Sure I'm drawing more from the grid than I 'need to' but its increasing my return on investment.

this, i do the same too

 

[Ron-ski]

I have a naive question but with solar panels being so cheap these day. I've seen figures of £60 a panel. (is that right?)
With enough panels and extras would it be possible to do a DIY setup for only a few thousand.

Am I wrong to believe that a lot of the cost stopping people from having solar panels is the installation cost.?

How much work is involved that could be done before a professional is need to wire it into the house.

Yes you can pick up panels for £57 including VAT, as DIY you have to pay the VAT though.

You can get a 15kWh battery for £2500.

Then you need an inverter, cabling, rails for the panels, along with numerous other bits and pieces, it does add up but can be considerably cheaper than an installer, but you really need to know what you are doing.

You'd need a electrician for the AC work, and its hard to find one that will work with you. You need to do the G98 or G99 DNO application, although the electrician might do it (I did my own).

Its also extremely hard physical work, working on a roof at an angle, removing tiles, fitting roof hooks, but before you can do that you have to plan it out, making sure you comply with regulations. You need to install the inverter, battery, and get the cables to it, and the mains back to the CU.

Once its up and running, you then want to get paid for export, this is the biggest and most annoying hurdle, pretty much every energy supplier insists on an MCS certificate, and you won't have one, and won't get one. Octopus apparently will assess your installation, and then accept it, but a lot struggle going this route, I think I've only heard of one person on here that's been successful.

That's the sort of thing that would trigger @Ron-ski and well most people who regularly post in this thread

It's so annoying seeing vasts roofs with silly arrays or none, whole housing estates going up without a single panel, large car parks without solar roofs, if roofs and car parks were better utilised we wouldn't need to fill fields with panels.


This is how they do it in Belgium, this is actually a truck park, but the entire area is covered by a solar roof, its been there for years.

NOMAD POWER · Industrieweg 15, 3550 Heusden-Zolder, Belgium

★★★☆☆ · Auto electrical service

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It's so annoying seeing vasts roofs with silly arrays or none, whole housing estates going up without a single panel, large car parks without solar roofs, if roofs and car parks were better utilised we wouldn't need to fill fields with panels.


This is how they do it in Belgium, this is actually a truck park, but the entire area is covered by a solar roof, its been there for years.

NOMAD POWER · Industrieweg 15, 3550 Heusden-Zolder, Belgium

★★★☆☆ · Auto electrical service

maps.app.goo.gl

this is how we do it in the UK

The Range Distribution Warehouse · Near, Gateway Blvd, Stowmarket IP14 5BP

★★★★★ · Warehouse

maps.app.goo.gl

They may well be adding more panels, I'm not actually sure if this is the finished array but clearly they will not be filling the roof based on its design.

 

[DRZ]

It isn't great to see 'waste' like that but perhaps there's a reason - the grid in that area might be shambolic for example meaning they are heavily export limited or would have had to invest in the local energy infrastructure in ways that meant the ROI just wasn't there for them. These problems could and should be able to be overcome but with the state of infrastructure in the UK at the moment I wouldn't want to bet on it improving any time soon.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It isn't great to see 'waste' like that but perhaps there's a reason - the grid in that area might be shambolic for example meaning they are heavily export limited or would have had to invest in the local energy infrastructure in ways that meant the ROI just wasn't there for them. These problems could and should be able to be overcome but with the state of infrastructure in the UK at the moment I wouldn't want to bet on it improving any time soon.

It’s a brand new state of the art industrial complex. It will have had a huge dedicated power supply put in to cover the expected demand from the site.

If the array pictured is ‘final’, I doubt it even covers the demand of the building at peak generation.

I’m pretty sure electric HGV chargers are a part of the site plan for some point in the future.

On the flip side, screwfix up the road knows how to get it done @Ron-ski style.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jJXKPgSspKfrufVb7

Edit: 15MVA to the site, chunky.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Ripple didn't look great to me when I played with some numbers on it.
Have to remember its a commercial enterprise so its selling at commercial prices.
Don't get me wrong its not a complete no no, and long term its an ok investment.
But iirc when I looked the ROI was well into teens number of years. And iirc the lifetime was either 25 or 30 years, at the end of it you have nothing.

 

[200sols]

Ripple numbers made no sense. Sticking the equivalent cash into an renewable investment trust makes more sense to me but also comes with other risks so DYOR!

 

[GinG]

Wow been ages since I was last on. Glad to see this is still going strong!

I can’t remember if I updated but I went with a 4kwh system with a 3.6 inverter and 5.2 battery (GivEnergy).

Been very happy and we’ve saved a fortune. I think we would be averaging around £80 a month now over the year including an EV which does around 300 miles per week.

I’d love a bigger battery but with slowing charge speed I can use the octopus intelligent to its full potential.

In the end it cost just under £7.5k just over 2 years ago.

 

[Macro]

I'm using a Solax X1 Hybrid G4 with 12KwH of battery, I'm having a few extra panels added and pondering the backup EPS feed for the odd occasion the power goes off (we're in the country with overhead lines so although not often we lose power a couple of times a year when a tree goes through the lines etc).

It'll need an earth rod etc so it can isolate and not shove power back down the line to shock whoever is working on the feed, I'm tempted to just do one double socket I can run an extension from if I need it for a lamp, internet, tv and fridge for a few hours, that avoids having to have the expense of a feed back into one of the consumer unit circuits. Any thought on what would seem a reasonable price to have it done?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I'm using a Solax X1 Hybrid G4 with 12KwH of battery, I'm having a few extra panels added and pondering the backup EPS feed for the odd occasion the power goes off (we're in the country with overhead lines so although not often we lose power a couple of times a year when a tree goes through the lines etc).

It'll need an earth rod etc so it can isolate and not shove power back down the line to shock whoever is working on the feed, I'm tempted to just do one double socket I can run an extension from if I need it for a lamp, internet, tv and fridge for a few hours, that avoids having to have the expense of a feed back into one of the consumer unit circuits. Any thought on what would seem a reasonable price to have it done?

Do you have a matebox?
There are two versions of mate box, one with EPS one without

I think its called the matebox advanced but you may wanna check that.

 

[Macro]

luckily as I understand it the X1 hybrid g4 handles switch over directly and doesn't need the matebox although i could be wrong

 

[Ron-ski]

According to https://www.solaxpower.com/x1-hybrid-g4/ it has EPS.

EPS being emergency power supply which is different to UPS, which is uninterpretable power supply.

 

[Macro]

I think the matebox adds additional controls, the X1 on its own should (I think) be OK to do simple battery back up power to a double socket to provide power from the battery during an outage. I'd just use an extension lead to run a couple of basics during a power cut rather than worry about full house backup.