Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yes the inverter can do one circuit (or a simple double socket) in the CU.

The mate box (advance I think) is what I have and diverts the incoming tails pre CU to provide whole house EPS.
Whole house is UPS although I think they don't use that term as technically you could see a fractional power drop as it switches where as a UPS you should not.

I have an X1 G4 and without the matebox its not whole house EPS.

There is a basic matebox as well, it simplifies all the wiring so its all enclosed, no external isolators etc.

 

[Macro]

Yes the inverter can do one circuit (or a simple double socket) in the CU.

The mate box (advance I think) is what I have and diverts the incoming tails pre CU to provide whole house EPS.
Whole house is UPS although I think they don't use that term as technically you could see a fractional power drop as it switches where as a UPS you should not.

I have an X1 G4 and without the matebox its not whole house EPS.

There is a basic matebox as well, it simplifies all the wiring so its all enclosed, no external isolators etc.

Ta, I'm in Suffolk as well and tempted to just do it properly although the cost of the matebox plus earth rod etc is likely to be unjustifiable for the odd time we lose power, hence the "can I just go enough to have light etc if we need it without breaking the bank"

Not having it is a bit like a itch you cant quite reach knowing the capability is there (almost), and the couple of times we've had an outage since we had the batteries i've kicked myself knowing power is there but i cant get it

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Ta, I'm in Suffolk as well and tempted to just do it properly although the cost of the matebox plus earth rod etc is likely to be unjustifiable for the odd time we lose power, hence the "can I just go enough to have light etc if we need it without breaking the bank"

Not having it is a bit like a itch you cant quite reach knowing the capability is there (almost), and the couple of times we've had an outage since we had the batteries i've kicked myself knowing power is there but i cant get it

They didn't add an earth to mine, but its installed right by the main fuse and tails so there is probably one there already.

Its one of them things I guess. It cost me about an extra £1k but its there. Its kicked in a few times.
But at least I know should there be planned cuts, for any reason, then I am good as I can plan to have full batts and go hours with normal activity whilst the grid is down.

The big advantage of whole house EPS to me is that stuff like the central heating will still work as the pump, controls, boiler etc will have power.

I expect to be popular with the neighbours if we ever do get a big cut

 

[DRZ]

I too opted to have my EPS output ran to the CU, albeit with a manual changeover switch in my case. As the EPS output is only the size of my hybrid inverter I can only have 6kVA from it so if I ever did need to use it in anger I'd have to make sure the really high-drain stuff like my electric underfloor heating and electric shower wasn't used while on battery but everything else should be fine.

I have a separate DB with the grid side of the inverter and the EV charger tied directly to the grid feed so the inverter never sees the EPS on the grid side and the EVSE can't ever try and pull from the battery when on EPS.

I've not needed it yet but I have run the house on it just to test. It is a pretty good capability really and well worth the £500 extra it cost me for the work.

 

[Macro]

I've asked the fitter doing the panels to quote me to do either a single circuit or whole hose EPS whilst he's here - i have a feeling it's going to cause a sharp intake of breath though.

 

[img]

Can anyone comment on how much i am being done over? The Sigen looks to have good reviews and i have 3 phase electrics.

i have 2 quotes so far out of 3.
First
37 x Jinko Solar Co., Ltd. 435 Watt Panels (JKM435N-54HL4R-B)
1 x SE16K, 1 x Primo 5.0-1 (SolarEdge Technologies Ltd./Fronius)
3 x Tesla Powerwall 2.0 (Tesla)
37 x S440
£50k not including another few thousand to run a cable from outbuilding to main house and scaffolding on top

second:
44 x JKM440N-54HL4R-B
Sigen Energy Controller Three Phase
44 x TS4-A-O
Sigen Battery with LED 16.12kWh
Sigen Energy Gateway HomeMax Three Phase
£19k plus some extra to run cables but including scaffolding.

Its a massive difference. It seems Tesla is not smart enough for 3phase so you need 3 but the panels are also slightly different. i will update when 3rd quote comes in.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Can anyone comment on how much i am being done over? The Sigen looks to have good reviews and i have 3 phase electrics.

i have 2 quotes so far out of 3.
First
37 x Jinko Solar Co., Ltd. 435 Watt Panels (JKM435N-54HL4R-B)
1 x SE16K, 1 x Primo 5.0-1 (SolarEdge Technologies Ltd./Fronius)
3 x Tesla Powerwall 2.0 (Tesla)
37 x S440
£50k not including another few thousand to run a cable from outbuilding to main house and scaffolding on top

second:
44 x JKM440N-54HL4R-B
Sigen Energy Controller Three Phase
44 x TS4-A-O
Sigen Battery with LED 16.12kWh
Sigen Energy Gateway HomeMax Three Phase
£19k plus some extra to run cables but including scaffolding.

Its a massive difference. It seems Tesla is not smart enough for 3phase so you need 3 but the panels are also slightly different. i will update when 3rd quote comes in.

Quotes aren't comparable really

3x powerwall is about £24k on their own. But the capacity is also like 3x the second quote.

But first still looks like its £15k or so more than equivalent of second. Unless I am missing something.

 

[img]

Quotes aren't comparable really

3x powerwall is about £24k on their own. But the capacity is also like 3x the second quote.

But first still looks like its £15k or so more than equivalent of second. Unless I am missing something.

An extra 8Kw battery is 3k so even then it seems a lot more for Tesla.

I was trying to see why i would need more battery as i am using the power each day so its hard to tell whats a good size.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

An extra 8Kw battery is 3k so even then it seems a lot more for Tesla.

I was trying to see why i would need more battery as i am using the power each day so its hard to tell whats a good size.

Whats your average winter elec usage? I would go around 75-80% of that. Assuming you can get close on battery with obvious sizing considerations.
Some people say 100% but I found the maths were just less efficient at that point.
Most days even in winter you will get generation.
The cost of the extra batteries for a few marginal days just don't seem to pay back.

I am assuming you have a way to be on a good TOU tariff and aren't looking to go "offgrid" so to speak.

Not sure if they still do, but Tesla used to have quite a good energy tariff with Octopus.
Worth bearing in mind, but also its a risk of course.

Are you going to be ok exporting at a high rate? did your installers give any indication in regards your locality?

 

[montymint]

man just as I was thinking octopus's quote of just over 9k for a 10 panel, 5KWH battery seemed ok (cheaper than when I last checked) I feel I need to shop around!

Anyone NE based have any recommended Solar PV fitters?

 

[The_One]

man just as I was thinking octopus's quote of just over 9k for a 10 panel, 5KWH battery seemed ok (cheaper than when I last checked) I feel I need to shop around!

Anyone NE based have any recommended Solar PV fitters?

Try BOXT you might be surprised they were the best for me

Heron Electrical actually did the work. I paid 11.5k for 18 panels with 9kw of battery storage and a 6kw inverter

 

[Ron-ski]

Can anyone comment on how much i am being done over? The Sigen looks to have good reviews and i have 3 phase electrics.

i have 2 quotes so far out of 3.
First
37 x Jinko Solar Co., Ltd. 435 Watt Panels (JKM435N-54HL4R-B)
1 x SE16K, 1 x Primo 5.0-1 (SolarEdge Technologies Ltd./Fronius)
3 x Tesla Powerwall 2.0 (Tesla)
37 x S440
£50k not including another few thousand to run a cable from outbuilding to main house and scaffolding on top

second:
44 x JKM440N-54HL4R-B
Sigen Energy Controller Three Phase
44 x TS4-A-O
Sigen Battery with LED 16.12kWh
Sigen Energy Gateway HomeMax Three Phase
£19k plus some extra to run cables but including scaffolding.

Its a massive difference. It seems Tesla is not smart enough for 3phase so you need 3 but the panels are also slightly different. i will update when 3rd quote comes in.

PW2, that's old hat now, PW3 is available, but not sure they can do 3 phase, probably best to use a system that's well suited to 3 phase

The Sigen Energy is apparently a very good system, and very expensive (as are Artisan Electrics).

 

[img]

Artisan Electrics

PW2, that's old hat now, PW3 is available, but not sure they can do 3 phase, probably best to use a system that's well suited to 3 phase

The Sigen Energy is apparently a very good system, and very expensive (as are Artisan Electrics).

What's wrong with Artisan Electrics

 

[Ron-ski]

Artisan Electrics

What's wrong with Artisan Electrics

I didn't say anything was wrong with them, in fact from their YouTube videos they appear to do a very good job, and very clean & tidy installation.

What I actually implied is that they are very expensive, if you look at their website they state "Solar and battery storage. Prices starting from £20,000". They only look for top end jobs (they've stated this on YouTube), the cream of the cream, and those customers willing to pay for a very tidy install, there's nothing wrong with that of course.

 

[montymint]

Try BOXT you might be surprised they were the best for me

Heron Electrical actually did the work. I paid 11.5k for 18 panels with 9kw of battery storage and a 6kw inverter

They came in at about 1.5k under Octopus for me, but use a hybrid inverter whereas Octopus are using micro inverters. I'm not 100% certain which is the better solution - but I do know my roof can;t fit any more panels than what will be fitted

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Unless you have shading, there is not a huge benefit to micro inverters but they could be a pita if when they fail.

Sure they come with a warranty but it’s only as good as the companies willingness to honour it. Getting scaffolding out every time a micro inverter fails in 15 years is going to get tedious very quickly.

They will probably generate slightly more energy with micro inverters but they also add a lot of cost compared to a hybrid. You are also ‘stuck’ with AC coupled batteries which have higher round trip losses compared to a hybrid inverter.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The only way I would have micro inverters personally is if they were absolutely 100% required (and lots of claims and demos show modern panels cope ok with shading)
or, they were installed so that they can be accessed from within the loft.
I have seen a couple of installs where they do this (push the micro up through the felt and mount internally), but its ofc more work.

I cannot remember the exact numbers now, but when I was looking I did look into micro and other inverter failures. Whilst there wasn't a lot of data available, again iirc, there was around a 5% failure rate in micros around the 10 year mark.
Which was similar to normal inverters. But as they years tick by thats only going to go up and up.
The most common solar failure was an inverter by a long shot.
I may have some of the old links somewhere, may look at some point as they were interesting.

 

[Nathan]

37 of those panels is some system! I’m not so sure Tesla needs 3 batteries for 3P. A friend of mine is just having 40 panels with two Tesla PW3s and he’s on 3P so it must be possible with less, could be the newer model maybe?
37 x 435w in the right direction will provide some glorious generation, better than most on here.

 

[Ron-ski]

A friend of mine is just having 40 panels with two Tesla PW3s and he’s on 3P so it must be possible with less, could be the newer model maybe?

You need a PW for each phase, although if they don't have any 3 phase equipment, and only use each phase to power separate 240v equipment then that would explain how they get away with just two.

 

[montymint]

Unless you have shading, there is not a huge benefit to micro inverters but they could be a pita if when they fail.

Sure they come with a warranty but it’s only as good as the companies willingness to honour it. Getting scaffolding out every time a micro inverter fails in 15 years is going to get tedious very quickly.

They will probably generate slightly more energy with micro inverters but they also add a lot of cost compared to a hybrid. You are also ‘stuck’ with AC coupled batteries which have higher round trip losses compared to a hybrid inverter.

Cool thanks for that, yeah it’s about 1500 difference and if I wanted to pay the same 9k I could get a second battery.

I think I was allured by the single panel monitoring