Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

I think I was allured by the single panel monitoring
I've had SolarEdge since 2015, which has single panel monitoring, I also have other systems installed since which don't.

Single panel monitoring is a nice to have, which I look at occasionally, but not essential, you have to weigh up the pro's and con's as mentioned above. I think a lot of installer's push the pro's as it makes fault identification much easier for them (and potentially future work replacing failed units), but solar panels rarely fail. There are also some safety benefits as well built into SE optimisers and micro inverters.
 
I've had SolarEdge since 2015, which has single panel monitoring, I also have other systems installed since which don't.

Single panel monitoring is a nice to have, which I look at occasionally, but not essential, you have to weigh up the pro's and con's as mentioned above. I think a lot of installer's push the pro's as it makes fault identification much easier for them (and potentially future work replacing failed units), but solar panels rarely fail. There are also some safety benefits as well built into SE optimisers and micro inverters.

It’s not an easy choice, but a couple of grand difference does make move to a single inverter more appealing
 
It’s not an easy choice, but a couple of grand difference does make move to a single inverter more appealing

What makes this annoying (searching for solar) is that you'll have one company slagging off microinvertors (saying they fail often) then another saying they're fine and less prone to failure than a hybris inverter.

I hate salesmen.
 
What you have to remember is you'll likely have one inverter, installed somewhere accessible, with micro-inverters and optimisers you have one for each panel, that greatly increases the chance of failure, and they are nearly always in an inaccessible place.

Are you also suggesting the optimisers are not really worth it?

Apologies for the 20 questions, I've never had solar before and I somewhat distrust salesfolk
 
What makes this annoying (searching for solar) is that you'll have one company slagging off microinvertors (saying they fail often) then another saying they're fine and less prone to failure than a hybris inverter.

I hate salesmen.
I had one sales person trying to tell me the Tesla Power wall and Daikin heat pumps are unreliable.

They didn’t fit either and were just trying to sell me on what they did…

Are you also suggesting the optimisers are not really worth it?

Apologies for the 20 questions, I've never had solar before and I somewhat distrust salesfolk
They are worth it if you have a roof which has a lot of shading or has different elevations, pitches and directions etc which need a bit more granular control.

If it’s just a straightforward roof where you can slap on 2 strings of panels with no real obstacles, it’s not worth it.
 
What makes this annoying (searching for solar) is that you'll have one company slagging off microinvertors (saying they fail often) then another saying they're fine and less prone to failure than a hybris inverter.

I hate salesmen.

Might help a little

I found similar when I was looking. Talk of 1 in 800 micro inverters having an issue within the first two years somehow being better than 1 in 350 for a string inverter I find a bizarre benefit.
Lets say a typical system is 10 panels, your talking roughly (lets not go stats crazy) 1 in 80 chance within two years of having an issue, vs 1 in 350 (still) for a string inverter.

If you go to 20 panels with micros your into the realms of 1 in 40 chance of an issue within two years.

I have also seen people saying they have to return the faulty one to get it replaced, which means multiple visits and potentially scaff up for a while.
I guess a good installer will probably swap out and deal with the warranty themselves, but thats fine ofc when your original installer still exists.

 
They are worth it if you have a roof which has a lot of shading or has different elevations, pitches and directions etc which need a bit more granular control.

If it’s just a straightforward roof where you can slap on 2 strings of panels with no real obstacles, it’s not worth it.

So not worth it then, I have a south facing, unobstructed roof.

Might help a little

I found similar when I was looking. Talk of 1 in 800 micro inverters having an issue within the first two years somehow being better than 1 in 350 for a string inverter I find a bizarre benefit.
Lets say a typical system is 10 panels, your talking roughly (lets not go stats crazy) 1 in 80 chance within two years of having an issue, vs 1 in 350 (still) for a string inverter.

If you go to 20 panels with micros your into the realms of 1 in 40 chance of an issue within two years.

I have also seen people saying they have to return the faulty one to get it replaced, which means multiple visits and potentially scaff up for a while.
I guess a good installer will probably swap out and deal with the warranty themselves, but thats fine ofc when your original installer still exists.


Thanks, I'll take a read.

I'll be doing a 10 panel system, as I'm semi detached - so something small compared to what others have installed.
 
So not worth it then, I have a south facing, unobstructed roof.



Thanks, I'll take a read.

I'll be doing a 10 panel system, as I'm semi detached - so something small compared to what others have installed.
Defo not worth it.

Just fit as many panels as you can physically fit on your roof the first time. The cost of fitting the panels is more than the panels cost to buy, most of the fitting costs are fixed in that you’ll pay them regardless of how many panels you fit.

For example, the scaffolding alone will cost as much as the 10 solar panels at wholesale.
 
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I'll be doing a 10 panel system, as I'm semi detached - so something small compared to what others have installed.

If you have equal roof space either direction you are better off getting the other side done as well, you'll likely regret it further down line if not. Also being in the north of the country means you need more!
 
Quote 1 said:
Inverter Sunsynk
5 kW Total Inverter Rating
1 x EH. SUNSYNK-5K-SG01/03LP1

Battery Sunsynk - 5.32 kWh Total Battery Storage
1 x EH. SUNSYNK-G5.3 (First Battery)

SCAFFOLDING - 2 Storey, 1 Elevations
1 x SCAFFOLDING - 2 Storey, 1 Elevations

Solar Panels JA Solar - 4.785 kW Total Solar Power
11 x 435 Watt Panels (EH. JAM54D41-435/LB)
4,096 kWh per year

£11,295


2 said:
JAM54D41 LB - 4.840kWof Solar Power
11 x JAM54D41-440/LB

Enphase IQ8AC Microinverter (0.36 kW AC)
3.96 kW of Inverter Power
11 x IQ8AC-72-M-INT [25 year warranty]

Enphase IQ Battery 5P (5.0 kWh, 3.2 kW AC)
5.0 kWh of Usable Capacity
1 x IQBATTERY-5P-1P-INT 5kWh (modular extra 1200 for 2nd battery so 10Kwh of storage which is way cheaper than I can find)

Free Bird Protection (WOO!)

£9590

Need to find out how long these Enphase batteries take to charge from mains as 7p per unit for charging on octopus sounds like it might be good, but it's only for approx 6 hours per night.

Thinking splurge the extra on the 10, so that I can charge overnight (if quick enough) hopefully a little left over to draw from the sun during the day and then push back to grid at peak anything we don't use

Am I doing this right lol?
 
Need to find out how long these Enphase batteries take to charge from mains as 7p per unit for charging on octopus sounds like it might be good, but it's only for approx 6 hours per night.

Thinking splurge the extra on the 10, so that I can charge overnight (if quick enough) hopefully a little left over to draw from the sun during the day and then push back to grid at peak anything we don't use

Am I doing this right lol?

Yep, assume you have an Ev to be mentioning 7p units.

Just check the inverter and batteries to see which will be the limiting factor.
Most inverters will charge at their headline rate, so 5kw inverter will be able to charge batteries at 5kw.
Most batteries will charge at a decent rate, especially if its multiples, eg 4x3kwh. The odd ones that seem to charge slower tend to be single batteries even in high capacity.
Although they do seem to be fixing that.

Bear in mind you get conversion losses on AC to DC, so the 7p units on a full trip will be probably 90% or so efficient.
Generally DC from panels can be sent to the batteries as DC so you will see better conversion of spare solar charging batteries.
Its not 100% though so check the combinations.
Its no massive thing but it does affect the numbers a bit.

I see most manufacturers tend to quote stuff like upto 96% efficient, but thats IMO best case.
Inverters are more efficient closer to max, again not massively but when running on low output compared to max they are less efficicent. Most problematic ofc in winter when gen is low anyway.

Edit, just to go back to the batteries thing. Mine will charge at 3kw, but thats each. As I have 4 in theory the batteries can charge at 12kw, but my inverter caps out at 5.5kw
If I only had one battery it would be charge at 3kw, 2 or more will max my inverter.
 
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Need to find out how long these Enphase batteries take to charge from mains as 7p per unit for charging on octopus sounds like it might be good, but it's only for approx 6 hours per night.

Thinking splurge the extra on the 10, so that I can charge overnight (if quick enough) hopefully a little left over to draw from the sun during the day and then push back to grid at peak anything we don't use

Am I doing this right lol?

Assuming you're on Intelligent Go rather than just Go, the reality is that the 6 hours is the minimum and in almost all cases you get longer than 6 hours. I have an automation set up to adjust my battery charging window depending on the Octopus charging schedule - sometimes I am charging as early as 10pm and frequently as far into the morning as 7am which is when my OH leaves for work and unplugs the car.

That Enphase battery unit has a max output of 3kW and so I'd assume that the fastest it can charge is 3kW - the technical docs don't seem to give a max. At 3kW it'll be charged in 90 mins (assuming 90% DoD) give or take. The Sunsynk battery wants to be charged (and discharged) at 0.5C for longevity which would be circa 2.5kW (but can do 5kW if you want it to), so 2 hours to charge give or take.

You'll need a lot more capacity before you need to worry about charging within the Intelligent Go window with any recent battery system on the market today.

EDIT to add:

Your export is only going to be either the flat-rate export or the Agile export tariff. There's no advantage in discharging the battery to the grid at any specific/particular time on the flat-rate tariff, you get a consistent 15p/kWh. It is up to you to do the maths to see if the ~8p/kWh margin is worth the extra wear and tear on your batteries. You'd be foolish to actively strategise to charge the batteries from the solar during the day on this tariff as you'd be better off just directly exporting at 15p/kWh (ie have enough battery capacity to get you from the end of the IG cheap charge window until your solar gen took over, then get you through the evening once the solar has fallen off) so that you avoid the 24.5p/kWh peak rate and avoid extra cycles on the batteries. Outgoing Agile is a different story, you sometimes get a lot more than 15p but most of the time it seems to be only slightly better than the fixed, and you need to be sure that every day you'll capture ALL of your excess solar in the batteries for later export or you'll be losing out quite significantly on the immediate export. Flux is a better tariff for this sort of thing but not if you have an EV.

Looking back at my own data: In August on a reasonably average day I'm exporting more than my total battery capacity (15kWh). On good days I'm exporting at least double my battery capacity. There's no way I would be better off in those circumstances as on that day the peak export rate was 16.1p/kWh and the daytime rate was about 8p/kWh. Assuming the best possible case of a totally empty battery at the start of the export generation I'd have exported 18.5kWh for 8p/kWh (£1.48) and 15kWh at 16.1p/kWh (£2.42) for a total of £3.90 instead of exporting 33.5kWh at 15p/kWh which made me £5.03. @Ron-ski's Flux maths are totally different, he can export at ~24p/kWh but his import costs a lot more comparatively so it is no good for EV owners. There's no one "right" answer, unfortunately.
 
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Defo not worth it.

Just fit as many panels as you can physically fit on your roof the first time. The cost of fitting the panels is more than the panels cost to buy, most of the fitting costs are fixed in that you’ll pay them regardless of how many panels you fit.

For example, the scaffolding alone will cost as much as the 10 solar panels at wholesale.
This is the one thing I always mention to people who ask me about solar. Max out your roof. Someone around the corner has just had panels installed this week, 8 on the front (SW) and 10 on the rear (NE). There's easily room for 4 more on the front and 4 more on the back. I too came a cropper with this when I got my SE roof done, 12 installed but could really have fitted 14 and now its too much cost to remedy. I suspect some of this is companies reaching what panelling their standard 3.6kW inverter will take and stopping as they don't want to do a G99.

If I was doing it again I would have got 14 panels on the SE roof, got the NW done at the same time (it wont generate anything - I was told at the time) and had one large 8kW inverter rather than two smaller ones I have now.

Main things in my view:

- Max out the panels on all roofs you can.
- Don't let them fob you off with a 3.6kW inverter because they cant be bothered to do a G99. The cost to go from a 3.6kW inverter to a 5kW for example is very little, but over the 10+ years you'll lose loads to clipping or extra grid use.
- Definitely get bird protection and spikes on your TV aerial if it is near the panels (two of mine are constantly covered in pigeon muck).
- Check the charge / discharge rate on batteries if you get them.
- Ignore the installers payback forecasts and predicted generation figures.
 
Defo not worth it.

Just fit as many panels as you can physically fit on your roof the first time. The cost of fitting the panels is more than the panels cost to buy, most of the fitting costs are fixed in that you’ll pay them regardless of how many panels you fit.

For example, the scaffolding alone will cost as much as the 10 solar panels at wholesale.

I’m not convinced that maxing out the other side would do much, unless I went for micro inverters or boosters, otherwise my south facing panels will be crippled by the north facing ones no?
 
I’m not convinced that maxing out the other side would do much, unless I went for micro inverters or boosters, otherwise my south facing panels will be crippled by the north facing ones no?
A north-facing roof will generate about 60% annually of what a south-facing roof will. If you can get 10 on that side its definitely worth it. Obviously its more skewed to the lighter half-year, but for the small extra cost it'll pay back very quickly.

It wouldn't affect the south facing panels' generation as they would usually be installed on a different string on the inverter.
 
They will be on different strings, the south side will be separate to the north side.
A north-facing roof will generate about 60% annually of what a south-facing roof will. If you can get 10 on that side its definitely worth it. Obviously its more skewed to the lighter half-year, but for the small extra cost it'll pay back very quickly.

It wouldn't affect the south facing panels' generation as they would usually be installed on a different string on the inverter.
Oh so the inverter can take multiple arrays of panels? I thought it was one per inverter (shows that I’m a noob)
 
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