Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

SDK^ said:
I wanted a GivEnergy battery in April and my installer said it would be at least September to get one. I changed to Huawei and got it delivered within 6 weeks.
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My installer rang me yesterday to say they'll have my two 9.5kW batteries and gen2 inverters in two weeks time ( ordered end of March).
 
Jes.. ordered March?

Seems as though the mad uptake may be catching up now. If someone ordered in June could be a long wait.
 
I've been looking through this forum thread for a few weeks and picked up some useful information - thanks!

I need to check my understanding on something - the difference between a GivEnergy Giv-HY 3.6 and a Giv-HY 5.0 (the Gen 2s of course):
My solar panels will be 4kWp at the most - the roof won't hold more due to velux windows - so a 3.6 should be enough for the PV inversion side of things.

But if usage goes above 3.6kW (kettle switched on whilst washer/dryer running say) then the excess over the 3.6 is met by grid power even if the PV/battery combined could provide more.
That leads me to think that having a 5.0 for ~£70 more would be better because it allows 1.4kW of extra local power before using grid power.

Then I read about the G98/G99 PNO limitation being 3.6kW anyway so I think I might as well just get a Giv-HY 3.6 to save paperwork in case the bigger Giv-HY 5.0 option is kyboshed by the PNO (Electricity North West).
Then I read about G100 which seems to indicate that output can be export limited to 3.6kW on the Giv-HY 5.0 anyway so the PNO won't say no as long as this option is used and it just means getting G99/G100 paperwork done in advance rather than G98 after the fact.

Is this correct?
 
I think the DNO approval is only required if you can dump more than a certain current to the grid at any one time which for most is what limits the size of the array, or has to be capped via the inverter
The batteries are total storage and not output current (they are in the specs and lower than DNO anyway)

if the 5 is only that much more than a 3.6 its a no brainer to go for the bigger one. They are the old tech IIRC and have lower output and also a higher retention needed (ie they dont 100% discharge)
 
simmotech said:
These are the Gen 2s - 5.0 is 5000W Nominal; 5000VA Max Apparent Power Output to the Utility Grid and 22.8A (from https://www.givenergy.co.uk/pdf/Version 2.0/Hybrid Inverter Gen 2.pdf)

This page, https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/pages/export_limitation.aspx seems to indicate that battery storage output is relevant but I think that the hybrid inverter max charge/discharge rate of 3600W means it should be OK for this G99 Fast Track scheme.
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Sorry I got confused by the models and thought you were talking about battery storage as well

The Inverters can be limited but whether than can limit outgoing only is probably a question to specifically ask givenergy. Its certainly a useful question which I don't think I have seen specifically asked.
But if your at 4kwh max you almost certainly not going to hit 4 anyway, you need to know your facing and angle. Only a pretty limited combination gets 100%.
 
A 3.6kw hybrid inverter can only send 3.6kw max via the AC connection for grid export and consumption regardless of source ie. solar/battery. The beauty of a hybrid inverter is that the battery is connected directly and a good one can charge it while also outputting up to 3.6kw to AC if the solar input is available. Thus fine for a G98. The LuxHybrid 3.6kw can take 7kw of DC input so that's plausible (3.6kw consumption/export and 3kw charging), the GivEnergy is 4.7kw DC max input but fine clealry for a smaller array.
 
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I try to keep up with this companies blogs. They seem really on top of things and provide useful info.

This is quite interesting. Sun power have upped their panel warranty to 40 years. And they say they have reduced degradation
At 25 years they claim 92% vs a "normal" panel at 83.1% (suspect thats worst case to avoid warranty claims)
At 40 years they are still claiming 88.3% which is pretty remarkable!

blog.spiritenergy.co.uk

SunPower's 40 Year Warranty is a Game Changer

Maxeon Solar Technologies has extended the warranty on SunPower Maxeon panels to a game-changing 40 years, covering product, performance and service.
blog.spiritenergy.co.uk blog.spiritenergy.co.uk

Oh and they also had a blog about capping expert and large grids which covers the conversation above

blog.spiritenergy.co.uk

Export Limitation: The Saviour of Large PV Systems?

Export limitation involves fitting a device to cap exported power going from the solar system to the grid. But why would you want or need one?
blog.spiritenergy.co.uk blog.spiritenergy.co.uk
 
Thanks for the provided links - both very helpful. The comments in the second one seems to answer my confusion about whether battery output potentially counts towards the export limit or not.
Seems like DC-coupled=no (which a hybrid would be) but AC-coupled=yes. And SBo's comment seems to provide further confirmation.
So if the 5.0 hybrid inverter is clever enough to detect a kettle being switched on and increase its output knowing that the net effect is never more than 3.6kW exporting then it should be clever enough to use both battery and solar as the sources for that increase (if necessary).

May as well go for a 5.0 then to solve the 'kettle peak' question.
(Actually, the wife wants one of those Quooker thingies so the there may be no 3kw kettle peaks anyway but still..)
 
Would be a good opportunity for a solar compatible limited kettle
3kwh element with a dial that allows lower input level, eg 1kwh, 2kwh, 3kwh

For most people the kettle is probably the single highest usage item. Although its very short spurts typically so even a top up from the grid is going to be minor cost
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Would be a good opportunity for a solar compatible limited kettle
3kwh element with a dial that allows lower input level, eg 1kwh, 2kwh, 3kwh

For most people the kettle is probably the single highest usage item. Although its very short spurts typically so even a top up from the grid is going to be minor cost
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Can you not just get a camping/caravan kettle that is lower watts? Sure it may take longer for a brew but the peak draw should stop it needing any grid energy, that was my idea anyway.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Would be a good opportunity for a solar compatible limited kettle
3kwh element with a dial that allows lower input level, eg 1kwh, 2kwh, 3kwh

For most people the kettle is probably the single highest usage item. Although its very short spurts typically so even a top up from the grid is going to be minor cost
Click to expand...

Just worked it out - 3kW (not kWh) over 45 seconds (presuming people use their noggin and only boil a cup's worth) equals about 1p at the price cap rate of 28p/kWh.

And as @gpuerrilla points out, you could get a camping one to make sure. Water needs a certain amount of energy to be passed into it to heat to 100C, so it doesn't matter whether it's delivered at 1kw or 3kW, one will just be quicker, but use the same amount of energy in total.
 
gpuerrilla said:
Can you not just get a camping/caravan kettle that is lower watts? Sure it may take longer for a brew but the peak draw should stop it needing any grid energy, that was my idea anyway.
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I think you’re overthinking this. The inverter will kick out 3.6kw from the solar and/or battery. This will cover the kettle. In the event home demand is more more and also while switching/load managing sometimes it may draw from the grid but the amount from the grid in kwh measurement will be tiny.

I have a 5kw hybrid inverter because I have 6kw of panels and in the summer I want to be able to export as much as possible rather than clipping my production.
 
gpuerrilla said:
Can you not just get a camping/caravan kettle that is lower watts? Sure it may take longer for a brew but the peak draw should stop it needing any grid energy, that was my idea anyway.
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Yep I am sure you could, but you may want to limit it some of the time was my thought.
A kettle is the most obvious item that you may be in a rush so want it to boil as fast as possible, or maybe like me most of the time I add what i need, flick it on and wander off to return when I hear it click, so if I was trying to keep it to 1kwh or so to avoid importing energy for a short period then having to sell later at a much reduced price.

squerble said:
Just worked it out - 3kW (not kWh) over 45 seconds (presuming people use their noggin and only boil a cup's worth) equals about 1p at the price cap rate of 28p/kWh.

And as @gpuerrilla points out, you could get a camping one to make sure. Water needs a certain amount of energy to be passed into it to heat to 100C, so it doesn't matter whether it's delivered at 1kw or 3kW, one will just be quicker, but use the same amount of energy in total.
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Which was exactly my point. A simple switch low/med/high would allow you to pass that energy at the most effective point for that point in time. If for example you are importing 100% anyway then it makes no diff :)
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
SNIP... so if I was trying to keep it to 1kwh or so
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kW are not the same as kWh. We're talking about power here, which is measured in kW. kWh is used to measure energy - if you powered a 1kW kettle for one hour you'd have used 1kWh of energy. If you run a 2kW kettle for half an hour, you've still used 1kWh.

Not trying to be condescending or anything but I noticed in a few of your posts on this topic you've used kWh instead of kW so just wanted to nudge you in the right direction :)
 
SBo said:
I think you’re overthinking this. The inverter will kick out 3.6kw from the solar and/or battery. This will cover the kettle. In the event home demand is more more and also while switching/load managing sometimes it may draw from the grid but the amount from the grid in kwh measurement will be tiny.

I have a 5kw hybrid inverter because I have 6kw of panels and in the summer I want to be able to export as much as possible rather than clipping my production.
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With batteries maybe. My setup wont have batteries. Hence why especially on normal days i.e. cloudy or non-wall to wall sunshine days you dont want to creep anywhere near the 3kw limit as you want to avoid the grid (kettle and high use items will trigger that)!

So to clarify. 3.6KW inverter for me. Limited by DNO regs. Don't assume everyone has the same setup as you. :)
 
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