Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[Andrew Moore]

I’ve just had a couple of quotes..

One wants to install 18x panels for 7.2kw system with 6kwh battery pack and everything all installed with full parts and labour warranty with monitoring for 10 years. This is for what they call “day light panels” so as long as they get some light they work pretty well even in winter (apparently).

£15319 all in.

Another wants to install 12x panels for a 4.8kwh system with 10.4kwh battery pack and everything installed with a 12 year panel warranty, 10 year battery warranty and a 5 year labour and other parts warranty.

£11769 all in.

Now, I like the idea of the additional power to sell to grid and the facility to do washing, car charging, you name it when ever you need it without ever really spending a penny on power in the day, only really using power in the dark hours from battery (which can then be charged in my 00:30 to 04:30 window on the cheap) so a saving all the same.

I’m torn on the solutions.

Which would you think is the better option? I’m thinking the more costly solution will allow for the addition of a second PHEV or fill electric at the home without really having a concern for charging as they will just go on trickle during the day and full charge on the cheap bracket (assuming I can automate that).

Which is the better value in your opinions ?

 

[gpuerrilla]

Depends on your lifestyle and what tariffs you can take advantage of. Since I have been able to WFH, I can offset a lot of usage in the daytime and try to do stuff when it daylight.

 

[Journey]

This is for what they call “day light panels” so as long as they get some light they work pretty well even in winter (apparently).

I don't think I've ever heard so much BS in my life, that is how solar panels work, they don't need direct sunshine. lol

Can you supply the name or make and model of the panel please.

 

[~Divine~Wind~]

any of you had quotes for panels and integrated?
just wondering what comparable costs are.

We've had to change the property we're buying and am now thinking solar w/battery and using any excess to heat the hot water tank, i think I've read that's possible, does it depend on tank?

like the idea of wfh and having ac installed too, even better if it's solar powered hehe

 

[BUDFORCE]

Ink

any of you had quotes for panels and integrated?
just wondering what comparable costs are.

We've had to change the property we're buying and am now thinking solar w/battery and using any excess to heat the hot water tank, i think I've read that's possible, does it depend on tank?

like the idea of wfh and having ac installed too, even better if it's solar powered hehe

Yup the tank needs to have an immersion heater. But most do even if they are gas/oil fired normally.

The thing is like a big variable resistor, so it gets installed into the existing wiring that goes to your immersion element, and reads of the (outgoing?) energy flow and just opens the resistor accordingly.

Since we had our install done, a week ago now, we've had tons of hot water and I don't think we have heard our oil fired boiler go on at all.

The bigger the tank the more energy you can store, our is 210 litre I think and plenty of hot water for family of 4.

The only negative is the "sensor" needs batteries, so you need to check it every now and then.

 

[-Ad-]

Gents, get yourself onto the FB group "Solar & battery UK (including any other renewable energy source/storage)"

There's a wealth of info on there and many people asking for views on their quotes, so you can get a gauge of what is reasonable or not.

Use the website Easy-PV and you can essentially google maps trace your roof and let it guide you through a system layout/design. It'll then work out a rough cost for materials for you. Highly recommended you do this and delve into it rather being sold bull poop by a salesman.

Sites for helping gauge equipment costs and seeing if your quotes are taking the pee:

Solar PV & battery Storage components – ITS Technologies

.I.T.S. Technologies is a supplier of an extensive range of renewable & energy saving technologies for both domestic and commercial

www.itstechnologies.shop

Midsummer Wholesale

Midsummer Wholesale - suppliers of PV panels, inverters and system components to solar installation companies

midsummerwholesale.co.uk

Had a guy out today to give a quote, I haven't got the full breakdown in writing yet (should be getting an email).

but they quoted £900 for if done during install (I think the guy worked out it was ~£2k if done as a retrofit i'm guessing due to the need for scaffolding etc again).

Apparently they can start very quickly with everything in stock (he was quoting as little as a week), and compares well with the previous quote which didn't include the bird guard.

[edit]
Just received the quote.

£900 for bird proofing, whilst they are already there with the scaffolding up. Ridiculous rip-off!!!!!!!!

Just have a quick google and work out the amount of bird protection screen you need, it's just some clips and plastic/stainless mesh. A few hours work and call it £200 for a nice stainless steel mesh kit. Not £900!

Also, make sure you pay at least some of it on Credit card, even a token £100 depost. You need to protect yourself should issues arise.

I also think the price is a bit spendy, please post up a crop of your main quote (when you get it through) showing the line by line costs and breakdown of parts, I can then take a looky.

I’ve just had a couple of quotes..

One wants to install 18x panels for 7.2kw system with 6kwh battery pack and everything all installed with full parts and labour warranty with monitoring for 10 years. This is for what they call “day light panels” so as long as they get some light they work pretty well even in winter (apparently).

£15319 all in.

Another wants to install 12x panels for a 4.8kwh system with 10.4kwh battery pack and everything installed with a 12 year panel warranty, 10 year battery warranty and a 5 year labour and other parts warranty.

£11769 all in.

Now, I like the idea of the additional power to sell to grid and the facility to do washing, car charging, you name it when ever you need it without ever really spending a penny on power in the day, only really using power in the dark hours from battery (which can then be charged in my 00:30 to 04:30 window on the cheap) so a saving all the same.

I’m torn on the solutions.

Which would you think is the better option? I’m thinking the more costly solution will allow for the addition of a second PHEV or fill electric at the home without really having a concern for charging as they will just go on trickle during the day and full charge on the cheap bracket (assuming I can automate that).

Which is the better value in your opinions ?

Firstly, get as many solar panels on your roof as you can. Most of the cost is in scaffolding and installation/commissioning, so a few extra panels at £160-£200 are well worth it.

If they install an inverter over 3.6kW then you need to make sure they've done a G99 application to your DNO. Work should not start until this has been done and the DNO have come back, either allowing a 3.6kW+ inverter, or denied it and limiting your export potential. Then you'll either need re-quoting with a 3.6kW limited inverter or a larger inverter that has G100 export limitation built in, where a G100 form will have to be submitted to the DNO to allow this.

Also, can you list what parts they are supplying for each of the quotes; the brand of panels, brand and size of inverter and brand of battery storage. Also the quotes with line by line costs for the parts and various labour/commissioning/scaffolding fees.

Ideally you want 18 panels, a larger inverter and the 10.4kWh battery. Both quotes are overpriced, but companies are taking the mick with everyone FOMOing into Solar/battery combos.

 

[94JDH]

I’ve just had a couple of quotes..

One wants to install 18x panels for 7.2kw system with 6kwh battery pack and everything all installed with full parts and labour warranty with monitoring for 10 years. This is for what they call “day light panels” so as long as they get some light they work pretty well even in winter (apparently).

£15319 all in.

Another wants to install 12x panels for a 4.8kwh system with 10.4kwh battery pack and everything installed with a 12 year panel warranty, 10 year battery warranty and a 5 year labour and other parts warranty.

£11769 all in.

Now, I like the idea of the additional power to sell to grid and the facility to do washing, car charging, you name it when ever you need it without ever really spending a penny on power in the day, only really using power in the dark hours from battery (which can then be charged in my 00:30 to 04:30 window on the cheap) so a saving all the same.

I’m torn on the solutions.

Which would you think is the better option? I’m thinking the more costly solution will allow for the addition of a second PHEV or fill electric at the home without really having a concern for charging as they will just go on trickle during the day and full charge on the cheap bracket (assuming I can automate that).

Which is the better value in your opinions ?

I don't think I've ever heard so much BS in my life, that is how solar panels work, they don't need direct sunshine. lol

Can you supply the name or make and model of the panel please.

Also seems quite expensive for what you're getting.

 

[SoliD]

This hot weather is really using up my batteries, down to 25-30% overnight with the AC on. Maximising my solar though, export has been quite low despite the 35kwh+ generation every day. I'm not being super efficient as just been leaving the AC on all day and night, which would probably change if i'm charging a PHEV. But grid pull has been like 5kwh since it's been installed 2 weeks ago now.

 

[Journey]

This hot weather is really using up my batteries, down to 25-30% overnight with the AC on.

That's what you want though, use it while you have it to store more for later

What is the average draw from the AC system in waking hours vs night time hours?

But grid pull has been like 5kwh since it's been installed 2 weeks ago now.

That's pretty good going, I've done more than that but needed to charge the car one night so that sucked up a good chunk of kWh's.

 

[SoliD]

That's what you want though, use it while you have it to store more for later

What is the average draw from the AC system in waking hours vs night time hours?


That's pretty good going, I've done more than that but needed to charge the car one night so that sucked up a good chunk of kWh's.

Indeed! Base load during the day is about 1100-1200W with both lounge and upstrairs on, then overnight it's about 800W give or take, so about 7-800W and 400W assuming a base load of approx 400w or so.

 

[crazyDAJT]

I’ve just had a couple of quotes..

One wants to install 18x panels for 7.2kw system with 6kwh battery pack and everything all installed with full parts and labour warranty with monitoring for 10 years. This is for what they call “day light panels” so as long as they get some light they work pretty well even in winter (apparently).

£15319 all in.

Another wants to install 12x panels for a 4.8kwh system with 10.4kwh battery pack and everything installed with a 12 year panel warranty, 10 year battery warranty and a 5 year labour and other parts warranty.

£11769 all in.

Now, I like the idea of the additional power to sell to grid and the facility to do washing, car charging, you name it when ever you need it without ever really spending a penny on power in the day, only really using power in the dark hours from battery (which can then be charged in my 00:30 to 04:30 window on the cheap) so a saving all the same.

I’m torn on the solutions.

Which would you think is the better option? I’m thinking the more costly solution will allow for the addition of a second PHEV or fill electric at the home without really having a concern for charging as they will just go on trickle during the day and full charge on the cheap bracket (assuming I can automate that).

Which is the better value in your opinions ?

I whould recommend the smaller cheeper system with a larger battery.

My experience is even with a 4kw array (and no battery) I just can’t use it. It’s very rare for me to use more than the 3.6kw rating of the inverter. And if I do it’s on small peeks (oven or induction heating up)

The only thing that kills this is the tumble dryer or the EV.

However these loads can be shifted onto an go-faster tariff that starts at 9:30.

You will regret a 7KW system and limited storage. As unless you can dump it all into the car (with a load adjusting EV charger) you are going to send so much to the grid. At around 4p/kwh.

Yes you will get a lot more than me during the winter via solar, but I whould have another 3kwh of capacity (or about 8hr of house base load).

 

[Andrew Moore]

Depends on your lifestyle and what tariffs you can take advantage of. Since I have been able to WFH, I can offset a lot of usage in the daytime and try to do stuff when it daylight.

That’s essentially my typical day. Home working with the washer etc all accessible to use in that time frame.

I’ve just checked and panels are project solar elite or 400s (will confirm8 which have a lifetime warranty and some of the best reviews going so it’s not a cheap system the first looking like it’s a good value.

I think 6kwh should be enough in the winter for the evenings use so long as dish washer etc isn’t used until the cheap tarrif is on. Battery can then charge up ready for the morning. Discharging and charging a battery twice a day though will soon seem some degradation surely?

Either way, I’m not 100% on either both having pros and cons.

 

[Andrew Moore]

I whould recommend the smaller cheeper system with a larger battery.

My experience is even with a 4kw array (and no battery) I just can’t use it. It’s very rare for me to use more than the 3.6kw rating of the inverter. And if I do it’s on small peeks (oven or induction heating up)

The only thing that kills this is the tumble dryer or the EV.

However these loads can be shifted onto an go-faster tariff that starts at 9:30.

You will regret a 7KW system and limited storage. As unless you can dump it all into the car (with a load adjusting EV charger) you are going to send so much to the grid. At around 4p/kwh.

Yes you will get a lot more than me during the winter via solar, but I whould have another 3kwh of capacity (or about 8hr of house base load).

I use an average of 26.78 units a day (9800 units a year with peak use in the late 40s early 50s a couple of times a month.

Everything in the house is electric bar the heating and water however that will go to air source at some point when the combi packs it in.

I charge a PHEV at a good 270-280 units a month and my partner is going for a leaf or similar by new year so the use on cars will like extend to 400kwh a month (a drop on my use due to changes in cars used but her car getting a good full charge worth every 5-6 days based on her current monthly miles.)

As such I imagine I’ll be hitting 11k units a year within 6 months.


It’s also worth noting that I currently use go to charge a car in the night. This is something I can continue to do which obviously has a cost however if I can migrate a good chunk of charging for both cars to the day it’ll mean that a 6kwh battery should be enough for the evening with it getting a partial recharge in the GO hours to then serve my minimal morning needs.

Heavy use in the day is from 9 until 6.30 with wfh and evening oven/induction hob use a well as around 2-3 wash loads and a couple of tumble dryer runs to ensure my partners towels for her business are all clean and ready for when she needs them.

A need then to run a tumble dryer at night will be removed which give me some peace as there have been 2 tumble dryer related fires causing whole house destruction in the local area the last 6 months from oils/contaminants and my partner is a sports and holistic massage therapist so uses mineral oil..

I guess an option would be to look to see if I can stick an extra 2.6kwh battery in to the mix and reduce the panels on one by 3?

 

[gpuerrilla]

I think with things like EV or say a heatpump system the batteries are the way to go. But for me as I wanted to keep the outlay down (just finished a driveway, lane and flagging project) a few installers also were on the fence about recommending them. Cost is one thing, lifespan another then you ideally need an off-peak deal to compliment the winter so it can top up on the cheap rate.

 

[crazyDAJT]

I use an average of 26.78 units a day (9800 units a year with peak use in the late 40s early 50s a couple of times a month.

Everything in the house is electric bar the heating and water however that will go to air source at some point when the combi packs it in.

I charge a PHEV at a good 270-280 units a month and my partner is going for a leaf or similar by new year so the use on cars will like extend to 400kwh a month (a drop on my use due to changes in cars used but her car getting a good full charge worth every 5-6 days based on her current monthly miles.)

As such I imagine I’ll be hitting 11k units a year within 6 months.


It’s also worth noting that I currently use go to charge a car in the night. This is something I can continue to do which obviously has a cost however if I can migrate a good chunk of charging for both cars to the day it’ll mean that a 6kwh battery should be enough for the evening with it getting a partial recharge in the GO hours to then serve my minimal morning needs.

Heavy use in the day is from 9 until 6.30 with wfh and evening oven/induction hob use a well as around 2-3 wash loads and a couple of tumble dryer runs to ensure my partners towels for her business are all clean and ready for when she needs them.

A need then to run a tumble dryer at night will be removed which give me some peace as there have been 2 tumble dryer related fires causing whole house destruction in the local area the last 6 months from oils/contaminants and my partner is a sports and holistic massage therapist so uses mineral oil..

I guess an option would be to look to see if I can stick an extra 2.6kwh battery in to the mix and reduce the panels on one by 3?

So a few points as someone with a similar usage (with a few assumptions)

You need to separate house from car usage. Cars can be easily shifted (as you do with GO). I’m guessing house usage is around 16kwh? If I take of the PHEV? If this is the case you want more battery a lot more.

Or you need to load shift more. I would not encourage tumbling / washing while asleep. This is why I’m moving to 9:30 starting go faster as I can push a lot into this easy.

If your are planing to charge two car at the same time during solar, you are going to be disappointed. Beter to move the load time, also the 5hr go faster might help you.

Go peek rates are going to get very expensive to discourage usage during the day. If you attempt to charge a car when there isn’t enough Solar it will cost you a lot more than just using GO.

I initially thought Solar for charging car = win but now it’s just so much beter to charge it every night in the GO window. I.g with my PHEV if I pulled say 1kwh from the grid during charging it’s actualy more expensive, I should have just exported the difference and got paid for it.

TLDR

Don’t size for peek / small duration loading. Shift high load / long duration to go. Edit don’t forget about winter

 

[Andrew Moore]

Pulling 3-6 panels potentially from the array and increasing battery size to circa 10kw+ is more beneficial then most likely? At a guess I think ditching 6 panels at a cost of £300 or so each would go a substantial way toward the battery side wouldn’t it.

Well I appreciate the reply @crazyDAJT Im going to have a look more in to what I need to drop add in then to customise this solution.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I think what's being said is - you want to utilise all the available space on your roof with panels, whilst they're up there doing it. That's more important than anything else.

Adding a bigger battery at a later date will be easier than adding more panels.

 

[crazyDAJT]

Well I appreciate the reply @crazyDAJT Im going to have a look more in to what I need to drop add in then to customise this solution.

I got myself a Shelly EM to provide detailed load data (much more granular than a smart meter).

I put a clamp meter on my car charger and house separately to really understand my usage.

When you get solar you will naturally behaving to maximise benefit.

We avoid washing while cooking for example. Chucking a few loads on during the day when WFH is also a big help.

You don’t need a special meter you just noticed out the window and get a feeling for how much production you are getting.

 

[crazyDAJT]

I think what's being said is - you want to utilise all the available space on your roof with panels, whilst they're up there doing it. That's more important than anything else.

Adding a bigger battery at a later date will be easier than adding more panels.

I would agree with this, however exporting it all to the grid is a wast. You want to creat a balanced system based on needs or payback will be very long.

 

[SDK^]

My first proper week of solar generation - this is our energy import use, from the grid in the last 5 days : 0.9 kWh of electricity and zero gas
This includes 250 miles of EV range, with the cost of this grid use being just £0.23p

In terms of the 5 day cost savings without solar:

• Without my overnight Octopus Go off-peak rate : £85
• With my lower off-peak rate : £63

So it's going well so far !

Just waiting for the export approval to go through. So far this week I've exported about 40 kwh, so that would be approx £1.60 of SEG credit.