Sorry, but my thoughts are NOT with their families!

[Cobertizo]

I'd not put much faith in the rehabilitation either. Wastes of lives that cause carnage should just be wiped from the face of the Earth.

Okay, so let's recap. Stealing cars, resulting in sufficient damage to require an insurance claim, should qualify those responsible for the death sentence.

Hmm. I agree with every suggestion that crimes should be punished, and that punishments should be suitably strict, but I am uncomfortable with the idea of a wide application of a death penalty. Which, from certain contributors to this discussion, verges on the genocidal.

 

[Pilky01]

Pilky01 must win some kind of award for spelling a three letter word wrong four times in four posts.

Yayyyy I like awards, and I am trying to play TF2 at the same time as posting so there is my excuse

 

[Participant]

Okay, so let's recap. Stealing cars, resulting in sufficient damage to require an insurance claim, should qualify those responsible for the death sentence.

Hmm. I agree with every suggestion that crimes should be punished, and that punishments should be suitably strict, but I am uncomfortable with the idea of a wide application of a death penalty. Which, from certain contributors to this discussion, verges on the genocidal.

Why can people not grasp that not feeling sympathy for these people is not the same as saying that everyone that gets caught stealing deserves the death sentence? This thread is about sympathy, not criminal justice.

 

[Chimerical]

I'd not put much faith in the rehabilitation either. Wastes of lives that cause carnage should just be wiped from the face of the Earth.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm gonig to use some examples (about crime in general) here...so prepare yourself

Look at places like Johannesburg, look at the crime rates there. Then you look at the massive social breakdown and you understand partially why all of this has come about. Yes, they got rid of Apartheid, but everythings pretty much just as bad, with everyone killing everyone else.

You have angry mobs burning people, private police beating people, the police doing **** all because they're corrupt, total chaos, massive unemployment figures, etc. etc.

You think that 'scum' are different human beings to you and me? Or can you use your brain and work out that we're all the same and comprehend that anyone can become criminals. With the South Africa stuff, everyone IS a criminal. In the wrong situation, in the wrong time, and with the wrong crowd, everyone is just as bad as eachother.

Killing someone makes no problems go away, it solves nothing, it makes you just as bad as the criminals you so obviously dispise...and you're not even man enough to do it yourself. You're just glad a car crash did it for you.

Places like Johannesburg prove that rough justice/death penalty (which I bet you're pro for) solve nothing. There was a private police officer on camera saying that by "beating this criminal, he will never, ever steal again".

Well, yes he will steal again. Because he's got no money, because society doesn't care and because the (not proper) police guy is an idiot.

By you're logic we should kill everyone at the slightest inclination of wrongdoing.

Plus, rehab does work if applied properly. How the hell would you know that it doesn't in every case?

 

[Chimerical]

Why can people not grasp that not feeling sympathy for these people is not the same as saying that everyone that gets caught stealing deserves the death sentence? This thread is about sympathy, not criminal justice.

Its always about criminal justice. Same old, same old. Feeling zero sympathy for car robbers because they are criminals just shows how emotionally retarded you are. You see these deaths as justice basically.

Ok, ok, I will direct you to exactly why your comment that I quoted was "strange", since you cannot find that path on your own.

Saying "Nobody's going to be better off without anyone" is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous because the next person that would have been robbed by these scumbags will not have to go through the experience.
It is ridiculous because it is a non-sensical remark.
It is ridiculous because plenty of people have been plenty better off due to the death of very few in the past, and this is just another example.

Where/when have people been better off due to the death penalty? It was disbanded over 40 years ago for christ sakes.

Yeah, okay, so the robbers would just repeat the trick. Yet by killing them, you leave the space to be filled by someone else because you were too busy concentrating on 'justice' and not trying to solve the social problems that caused the criminal activity in the first place.

 

[Cobertizo]

Why can people not grasp that not feeling sympathy for these people is not the same as saying that everyone that gets caught stealing deserves the death sentence? This thread is about sympathy, not criminal justice.

With respect, did I not quote a statement that said "Wastes of lives that cause carnage should just be wiped from the face of the Earth", rather than "feeling sympathy for these people is unjustified"?

I agree that it's difficult to feel a great deal of sympathy for them. But fundamentally I don't believe that the level of criminal activity and idiocy that they were engaged in is line with the nature of the consequences. So can manage a sliver of sympathy on those grounds.

As for the families, I can feel much more sympathy - they weren't directly involved in the incident, after all...

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

I didn't claim to "know" it wouldn't work... I just said I wouldn't put much faith in it.

Apologies for not sparing much compassion for car stealing criminals, it's because I'm a bad person.
Why would these people deserve another chance? There are plenty of non-criminals who aren't given one.

 

[Pilky01]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm gonig to use some examples (about crime in general) here...so prepare yourself

Look at places like Johannesburg, look at the crime rates there. Then you look at the massive social breakdown and you understand partially why all of this has come about. Yes, they got rid of Apartheid, but everythings pretty much just as bad, with everyone killing everyone else.

You have angry mobs burning people, private police beating people, the police doing **** all because they're corrupt, total chaos, massive unemployment figures, etc. etc.

You think that 'scum' are different human beings to you and me? Or can you use your brain and work out that we're all the same and comprehend that anyone can become criminals. With the South Africa stuff, everyone IS a criminal. In the wrong situation, in the wrong time, and with the wrong crowd, everyone is just as bad as eachother.

Killing someone makes no problems go away, it solves nothing, it makes you just as bad as the criminals you so obviously dispise...and you're not even man enough to do it yourself. You're just glad a car crash did it for you.

Places like Johannesburg prove that rough justice/death penalty (which I bet you're pro for) solve nothing. There was a private police officer on camera saying that by "beating this criminal, he will never, ever steal again".

Well, yes he will steal again. Because he's got no money, because society doesn't care and because the (not proper) police guy is an idiot.

By you're logic we should kill everyone at the slightest inclination of wrongdoing.

Plus, rehab does work if applied properly. How the hell would you know that it doesn't in every case?

LOL at comparing the UK to Africa and Johannesburg.

 

[Participant]

You see these deaths as justice basically.

No. Justice and the human emotion of sympathy or otherwise are not the same thing.

Imagine if the driver of this car had lost control and skidded onto a pavement, on which your mother, father, sister, and her baby were walking.

He didn't mean it, but he killed them all and died also in the crash.

In this case, are you able to sympathise with the driver for his death?

If no, you are a hypocrite.
If yes, you are not human.

Where/when have people been better off due to the death penalty? It was disbanded over 40 years ago for christ sakes.

We're not talking about the death penalty, but since you brought it up, Singapore has very low crime rates and kills people for drug dealing.

 

[Chimerical]

LOL at comparing the UK to Africa and Johannesburg.

Erm why not? Give me one reason why it shouldn't be compared?

Crime is usually commited for the same reasons world over. If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

LOL at comparing the UK to Africa and Johannesburg.

They're no different to you and me supposedly.

Erm why not? Give me one reason why it shouldn't be compared?

Crime is usually commited for the same reasons world over. If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

I don't think 4 ****** stealing an Impreza in the UK for a laugh is similar to anything going on over there? Maybe it is.

 

[Chimerical]

No. Justice and the human emotion of sympathy or otherwise are not the same thing.

Imagine if the driver of this car had lost control and skidded onto a pavement, on which your mother, father, sister, and her baby were walking.

He didn't mean it, but he killed them all and died also in the crash.

In this case, are you able to sympathise with the driver for his death?

If no, you are a hypocrite.
If yes, you are not human.

So what if the driver was just an ordinary driver, who skids on an icy road, and then kills a family member? Doesn't change the outcome, but it does make it seem more like an accident. Funny, no?

Plus, I'm more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than a bunch of 'chavs'.

 

[Chimerical]

They're no different to you and me supposedly.

I don't think 4 ****** stealing an Impreza in the UK for a laugh is similar to anything going on over there? Maybe it is.

It is similar. I honestly believe that crime is crime is crime. The solutions to it are usually the same, but obviously need to be applied in a specific manner with regards to the situation.

Joburg is an extreme example, but I use it because it shows to me that lawlessness at its most extreme still results in people thinking that vigilante justice and capital punishment are the answers. People react the same everywhere. Fortunately, for the UK we have gotten rid of the death penalty and we have human rights for all etc.

Those vigilante mobs in south africa remind me totally of the wannabes over here who want to kill all the paedos (a paedophille was brutally stabbed recently by what could be an angry mob). They're one and the same (although thankfully the minority in this country) motivated by the same idiot sense of self-justice.

I recognise the differences between the two countries, private police probably are necessary in joburg, but (revenge, death penalty) its not a solution (even they admit that) and that to me is a universal truth.

 

[gareth.e]

I feel for the families and if anyone in the car wasn't scum.. Other than that it's just Darwin and karma just doing their rounds..

if you were my friend, and randomly decided to rape and murder someone, i would be obligated to help you dispose of the body..

so the answer is no

Dude.. Am I your friend? Can I have your number just incase

If these 4 guys where in a supermarket and found £200 on the floor would they deserve to die a horrific death?

yes.

 

[Participant]

So what if the driver was just an ordinary driver, who skids on an icy road, and then kills a family member? Doesn't change the outcome, but it does make it seem more like an accident. Funny, no?

Plus, I'm more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than a bunch of 'chavs'.

You failed to answer my direct question.

In response to yours, if someone hit my family as they skidded on an icy road, I would be devastated but bear them no ill will. But that's irrelevant as it's hardly the same as a crim stealing a car and losing control because they were speeding.

 

[Pilky01]

So what if the driver was just an ordinary driver, who skids on an icy road, and then kills a family member? Doesn't change the outcome, but it does make it seem more like an accident. Funny, no?

Plus, I'm more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than a bunch of 'chavs'.

Was the ordinary driver driving like a maniac trying to escape from the police in a stolen car?

 

[Cupra]

i blame the goverments crap penaltys from such scumbags. They have probably been court load sof times and got slapped fingers

 

[Chimerical]

We're not talking about the death penalty, but since you brought it up, Singapore has very low crime rates and kills people for drug dealing.

So does Saudi Arabia. They're both horrible, restrictive, police states. I used to think Singapore was the future for society...then I grew up.

Not to mention that both those country's have relatively tiny populations (22m & 4m respectively).

If we were to adopt either country's justice systems and laws, we'd be stepping backwards in time by about fifty years.

 

[gareth.e]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm gonig to use some examples (about crime in general) here...so prepare yourself

Look at places like Johannesburg, look at the crime rates there. Then you look at the massive social breakdown and you understand partially why all of this has come about. Yes, they got rid of Apartheid, but everythings pretty much just as bad, with everyone killing everyone else.

You have angry mobs burning people, private police beating people, the police doing **** all because they're corrupt, total chaos, massive unemployment figures, etc. etc.

You think that 'scum' are different human beings to you and me? Or can you use your brain and work out that we're all the same and comprehend that anyone can become criminals. With the South Africa stuff, everyone IS a criminal. In the wrong situation, in the wrong time, and with the wrong crowd, everyone is just as bad as eachother.

Killing someone makes no problems go away, it solves nothing, it makes you just as bad as the criminals you so obviously dispise...and you're not even man enough to do it yourself. You're just glad a car crash did it for you.

Places like Johannesburg prove that rough justice/death penalty (which I bet you're pro for) solve nothing. There was a private police officer on camera saying that by "beating this criminal, he will never, ever steal again".

Well, yes he will steal again. Because he's got no money, because society doesn't care and because the (not proper) police guy is an idiot.

By you're logic we should kill everyone at the slightest inclination of wrongdoing.

Plus, rehab does work if applied properly. How the hell would you know that it doesn't in every case?

 

[Chimerical]

...

Yeah okay

So whats you're proposals?