South Korea Jeju air plane crash

[Dis86]

Runway 01 and runway 19 is the same runway - it's labelled differently at each end

Yes, that's what I informed you after you discussed them as being two separate runways...

Again hence why you said things like "They aimed for runway 01 (I.e. flying over the concrete) and were told to abort and go to runway 19".

 

[dlockers]

Yes, that's what I informed you after you discussed them as being two separate runways...

Again hence why you said things like "They aimed for runway 01 (I.e. flying over the concrete) and were told to abort and go to runway 19".

you're better than this. They are literally labelled runway 01 and runway 19 - i.e. plural runways. If you want I could use a word salad to say "use the opposite approach on the same runway" but the already solved that problem by giving them two unique identifiers. Please don't be a diddums about this

Edit: at the point you are picking on me I had already posted 2 print screens of the bloody singular runway, lol.

 

[dlockers]

Juan Brown - current 777 captain, former US Air Force pilot and expert on these things:

He says the plane took 2 seconds to travel 150m so he calcs 150mph ground speed. In 60 more meters (or under 1 second later) they would have hit the concrete security wall:

For reasons we don’t yet know, they were landing without flaps and landing gear.

Yes that was my point all along. I suggested the concrete discussion is odd given how much more went wrong here.

Reports say air traffic sent them round to the opposite direction of the runway due to the birds, but that’s still speculation I think.

Video linked above has them striking birds on approach to Runway 01 (i.e. flying over the concrete). So presumably they hit, then tried to abort landing, then panic set in on trying to reach Runway 19 (or to help @Dis86 hurrr durr the opposite end of the same bit of tarmac).

 

[throwaway4372]

 

[Penfold101]

He says the plane took 2 seconds to travel 150m so he calcs 150mph ground speed. In 60 more meters (or under 1 second later) they would have hit the concrete security wall:

Yes that was my point all along. I suggested the concrete discussion is odd given how much more went wrong here.


Video linked above has them striking birds on approach to Runway 01 (i.e. flying over the concrete). So presumably they hit, then tried to abort landing, then panic set in on trying to reach Runway 19 (or to help @Dis86 hurrr durr the opposite end of the same bit of tarmac).

The wall is also a bad design, but it looks quite thin in comparison so the damage may not have been as bad. A large part of this investigation will look at whether these structures meet the requirements of an airport, if there are indeed any regulations on that subject. If there aren’t, then I suspect there soon will be.

The point of the concrete discussion is that it’s the fatal part of the incident - it’s something that didn’t have to be made of concrete or be so thick as to destroy an airliner which hit it. Lots of other things have gone wrong here, but there was a chance that a lot more people could have survived if not for the fact this wall was made of solid concrete when it didn’t have to be, and I suspect no-one even knew that it was a hazard till this happened, least of all the pilots.

The engine suffers a compressor stall, where airflow breaks down inside the engine and causes the flames. It may have been due to bird ingestion, we don’t know for certain yet. How this leads to the other problems we also don’t know.

 

[dlockers]

The wall is also a bad design, but it looks quite thin in comparison so the damage may not have been as bad. A large part of this investigation will look at whether these structures meet the requirements of an airport, if there are indeed any regulations on that subject. If there aren’t, then I suspect there soon will be.

It'll be interesting to see what is put forward. I can't imagine it'll be a directive given how unlikely this is to happen; but I also don't know how many airports have similar features. Some, like the one @dowie made a false comparison with, seem to not allow any kind of run off at all (the land disappears down a hill). I guess it could also mark the end of City Airport!

 

[aardvark]

He says the plane took 2 seconds to travel 150m so he calcs 150mph ground speed. In 60 more meters (or under 1 second later) they would have hit the concrete security wall:

theres quite a strength difference between this block wall and reinforced concrete, a huge difference.

 

[bingham67]

He is sparing no details explaining the reason they have not been able to release the bodies is because they are very badly damaged, with most of them not whole.

They are sorting through more than 600 body parts, trying to match them together.

They are taking their time as they want to avoid making any mistakes.

Forensic teams are still working today to collect more body parts and tissues.

Grim having to do that from the BBC live

 

[200sols]

Aircraft are design to survive all sorts of problems, including many shown in this accident such as a gear up landing. Runoffs are a reasonably common occurrence, and even at high speed they are easily surviveable:

Having a giant concrete wall there when it doesn’t have to be like that is just bizarre and has probably killed most of the people on the planet.

Key difference among many, the cargojet touched down right on the start of the runway threshold, Jeju plane was faster and landed over half way down, Jeju plane left the runway with more momentum. If the cargojet landed halfway down that runway in Vancouver the incident would have been very different.

Another thing is the landing gear being down helped slow the cargojet down quickly in the mud.

 

[StriderX]

Ultimately we'll never know if the plane would have similarly disintegrated past the airport boundary because the wall has ensured it's utter destruction beforehand.

I hope in all sincerity that this and the recent attempt to impose autocracy on South Koreans will make them question the cost of the corruption of their corporate-run government.

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

Juan Brown - current 777 captain, former US Air Force pilot and expert on these things:

I'm not Aeroplane expert but watching this from Capt Brown indicates 2 things.

1. Crew error?
2 An emergency that means they didn't have enough time to run through the emergency check lists although my understanding is they had time to change the runway approach ?

Will have to wait for the Data recorder . RIP all on board .

 

[bingham67]

Seems to suggest here at 11 mins onwards of a possible shutdown of the wrong engine.

Who knows tragic incident all the same.

Not sure it would have made a difference anyway but I read about similar incident Warsaw where they foamed the runway to slow a plane line this incident which was successful.

 

[squerble]

Seems to suggest here at 11 mins onwards of a possible shutdown of the wrong engine.

Who knows tragic incident all the same.

Not sure it would have made a difference anyway but I read about similar incident Warsaw where they foamed the runway to slow a plane line this incident which was successful.

Foaming the runway is for fire prevention, and would result in less friction to slow the plane down.

 

[jaybee]

Grim having to do that from the BBC live

With the upmost respect, what is the actual point in trying to cobble together bits of obviously deceased human? The airline will know who was on the plane?

 

[Bassmansam]

With the upmost respect, what is the actual point in trying to cobble together bits of obviously deceased human? The airline will know who was on the plane?

So they can be buried/cremated i guess.

 

[VaderDSL]

There’s always a possibility the flight crew made a mistake, like the flight crew on the ATR in Nepal who feathered the engines by accident instead of lowering the flaps. But I guess time will tell once the preliminary investigation is completed.

 

[dlockers]

Seems to suggest here at 11 mins onwards of a possible shutdown of the wrong engine.

Who knows tragic incident all the same.

Not sure it would have made a difference anyway but I read about similar incident Warsaw where they foamed the runway to slow a plane line this incident which was successful.

Yeah one of the experienced pilot YouTubers reckons the video makes clear hydraulics looked ok, and they hadn't given themselves enough time to even find the emergency landing manual/booklet let alone attempt one.

Could be they accidentally turned off the wrong engine and were losing altitude - panicked and yeeted it into the ground. A typical landing distance is over half the available runway, so they were going off the end even on a good day theoretically.

They didn't even attempt the manual landing gear deployment.

Obvs wait until the proper report is out, but it isnt looking good on the airline side of things.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Crazy how much speed the plane is carrying and how little it loses before the end, although not surprising given the lack of anything deployed to slow it down. Some suggesting a failed go around which would make sense given how far down the runway it was. They then panic and do nothing.

 

[adam cool dude]

It's still one runway. Doesn't matter if I put 4 on my wrist and 4765987354 at my shoulder, it's still one arm. They approached from a different direction due to the risk of the birds.

It isn't one run way. It is two. If atc tells you to land on 01 or 19 they are different. The runways are numbered in degrees so 01 is 10 degrees or north east and 19 is 190 degrees or south west.

Runways will have two sides to them so generally you can land into the wind.

 

[adam cool dude]

Crazy how much speed the plane is carrying and how little it loses before the end, although not surprising given the lack of anything deployed to slow it down. Some suggesting a failed go around which would make sense given how far down the runway it was. They then panic and do nothing.

A quick google shows the stall speed of 737 is 108 knots in landing configuration and 137 clean. It looks from the video that there is 0 flaps so it would have been going some speed. Most likely around 100-150mph.

Pilot didn't even try and use rudder or anything once it hit the ground. Zero flaps too is extremely odd.