Spanish Grand Prix 2012, Catalunya - Race 5/20

Only, just read the Hamilton ruling.

I think it's a bit of a joke.

Two reasons:
A) McLaren need to get it together, they've made mistake after mistake this season screwing both drivers over, but mostly Hamilton...
B) demoted to back of the grid? Wtf... A gearbox change isn't that much, and anyone at the FIA could tell you that that small change in fuel wouldn't have hugely effected his time...

I guess it could be interesting seeing him come back through the pack, but the Mclaren strateticians are pretty poor, so I doubt they'll make the most of his potential... It also relies on him doing a fair bit of overtaking, and this year he has seemed a lot more cautious, which whilst great as he's not hitting everyone, means it might take him longer to climb up the grid.

I could still see him getting top ten though, and if it rains, which I think is possible, he could do very well...

kd
 

Now DM this is the F1 thread, the texty rants of the football stadium are even less readable in here and silly names of the teams don't help. F1 is serious business don't you know!

Anyway it's a show/sport and its no fun when a team runs away with it...

Also FIA perfect decision for once! As pointed out earlier this has happened before and they were booted out of qualifying, so Hamilton to have the same punishment is only fair.

More annoyed its taken the limelight away form the overtaking off the track nonsense as that needed actual clarification instead of a "yeah we'll have a chat about it". That or put some quick sand on the edges of the track in Bahrain to trap the cars that do it, everywhere else can have an ultra slick surface that only the "best" drivers will not spin on....


Right prediction:

Kimi to win
Maldonardo second
Perez third after an amazing drive
 
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Fuel irregularities? Really?

Thats only been used in the past when the fuel did not match previous samples or did not meet the regulations *such as temperature, composition etc...* If thats the case, then it's fine to kick them out of the session.

Still feel the punishment was far too large.

I do feel that the rule should apply to the race as well. If there isn't enough fuel to do the warm down lap, then you underfuelled the car.
 
Seriously if my team at work made as many errors as the mclaren pit crew we would been sacked at least twice by now.

I'm predicting a massive snooze fest of a race with the only interesting bit being Maldonado smashing into someone
 
I do feel that the rule should apply to the race as well. If there isn't enough fuel to do the warm down lap, then you underfuelled the car.

It's a lot more difficult with the race though. Let's say there's an extended safety car period, and the race runs right up to the 2 hour limit, that will obviously use a very different amount of fuel to a race where everything runs smoothly.

An interesting solution would be to change the minimum weight limit to only apply at the start of the race, that way the teams could run a car under weight, make up the different with enough fuel to make them legal, while not having to worry about carrying the bare minimum levels of fuel.
 
It's a lot more difficult with the race though. Let's say there's an extended safety car period, and the race runs right up to the 2 hour limit, that will obviously use a very different amount of fuel to a race where everything runs smoothly.


Extended safety car runs are a low fuelled teams wet dream.

Drop the car down to 4 cylinders and the lowest mix settings. It's how they can sit at the end of the pitlane for 2 minutes without overheating anymore.
 
Extended safety car runs are a low fuelled teams wet dream.

Drop the car down to 4 cylinders and the lowest mix settings. It's how they can sit at the end of the pitlane for 2 minutes without overheating anymore.

Yep, hence why I phrased it as different instead of less. For as long as it's in the rules that there's no penalty for not making it back to the box after the race, teams will always take the gamble.
 
I suspect Hamilton should be able to get into the top 10 easily if his qualifyiing pace reflects his race pace.

Where he will be in that top 10 is down to his determination and pure luck i would have thought.

Hopefully he will get a good start and leapfrog the Caterham,HRT and Marussia cars in the 1st lap.
 
Now DM this is the F1 thread, the texty rants of the football stadium are even less readable in here and silly names of the teams don't help.

I know... Jesus Christ. I mean, granted DM doesn't always just spout rubbish, but I've never seen anyone write so much but say so little, lol.
 
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I do feel that the rule should apply to the race as well. If there isn't enough fuel to do the warm down lap, then you underfuelled the car.

just no, otherwise most of the field could run 1 lap less fuel and back markers a couple of laps less fuel. As well as fuel usage over a race distant massively changing.
 
I know... Jesus Christ. I mean, granted DM doesn't always just spout rubbish, but I've never seen anyone write so much but say so little, lol.

Sometimes its an entertaining read, sometimes its almost provocative and useful, this time (as with most posts) however its just embarrassing. Reads of a man who never drank a duff in his life! (well watched an F1 season)
 
Yeah, flipping this round and now looking at the grid as it is I'm proper happy for Frank and the Williams team. After the few years they have had this is epic. Its a pole on pace too, not like Hulkenburgs one from good judgement in 2010.

But why did it have to be mug faced pay driver oil funded unlikeable idiot driver who got it :(

You say hat about Pastor, but people love Prerez and he is back indirectly by the richest man on the earth.
 
I hope maldanaldo crashes into alonso and. Kimi/grojean win and come second!

Am I dreaming?

a lot of angry mc fans, least most are directing it at the team for mistakes.
 
It looks like McL cocked up and Hamilton is paying the price. The judgement is entirely fair in my eyes. The rules are quite clear with regards to the demonstrable quantity of fuel left at the end of quallies and stopping halfway around the track so you still have it left in the car is just idiotic - he didn't have enough fuel - tough biscuits...
 
Oh you hypocrite, every year you write a list of if's and buts where Jenson has lost points and when someone else mentions similar you spit the dummy.

They have cost Lewis far more points this year than Jenson and if that stat was reversed as usual you would mention it every 5 minutes.

I've always been a Jenson fan over Lewis but the facts speak for themselves in points lost. Last year is over I'm talking about this year. With Jenson out of the top 10 he had a real chance to bury some points tomorrow and the team blew it for him.

well its strange how in nearly every post you always want to stress how LH is hard done by, yet you are a JB fan - yeah right

Nearly every single mechanical failure for JB is forgotten about (or ****-up's by the team like the wheel at Silverstone), yet you go "on and on" about how it was only LH's own crashes that caused him to be beaten by his team mate last season

The fact that JB could have won two races this season instead of one (and as yet Lewis has failed to win any from 3 1st row positions) had the pitcrew not ***** up in China

It wasnt McLaren's choice to start him from the back of the grid today - whether it was a tactical choice, or a fueler mistake, (and whether Lewis knew about it or not) it cant exactly be certain that Lewis would have had a great race in the first place

Yet you dont ever stress how its just unfair - its always in relation to JB

Maybe you should try and post something less biased, and then I wouldnt have to pont out the obvious errors you are making (in nearly every post)

I also agree that this rule should apply to the race as well as qualifying, as that is where the points are awarded, therefore it is more important than qualifying.
Unfortunately we must accept this and move on.

Impossible to apply it to the race, and that would be completely unfair if they tried imo

Its fair enough teams should be able to manage to work out 3 laps of fuel exactly without adding extra weight (for qualifying) - magnifying the situation for 60 laps, with possibility of safety car's and everything else that can increase /decrease fuel usage and penalising them for less than a lap after the flag, that would be mightily petty imo

I was under the impression Jensen's car was fine to finish but they knew he had to change something that would have caused a grid place penalty for changing at the next race.

IE if the car pulls out of the race due to gearbox failure, they can put a new gearbox in for the next race without getting a 5 grid penalty for doing it AT the next race.

It's basically cheating, they decided it was better to give up a couple of points(due to a poor performance mostly) from Jenson, than to get a few points and a penalty at the next race.
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I understand that impression to be completely wrong

JB (with the technical issue apparant after having a pitstop to check it out) didnt have the pace to complete the last ~10 or so laps in the points, he would have been overtaken (as he was anyway he lost a place on the single lap before retiring), given the lack of pace both McLaren's had that race even when working well.

I think SV has already done similar this season (or one of the top teams retired a car before the end to save a penalty next race) - its team management, its not cheating at all. Its not like McLaren have an illegal device on their car or something.

In the case of gear boxes (as per your example) - remember every car/driver has a given number of gear boxes for the season, does it matter whether 1 lasts a single race as long as his remaining allocation get him through the remaining races without having to use an additional gear box? If anything it shows how good the boxes are in general if each of the remaining ones manages to complete additional race (s) to make up for the faulty one that failed.
 
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