Spanish Grand Prix 2012, Catalunya - Race 5/20

Did he? how do you know that, it has to be assumed he was underweight for the entire session.

That's nonsense, you can apply that to anyone ever. The fuel sample is taken at the end, only. There's no reason to think that he was running any other amount at any other time, or that anyone else is, has or does. It's not checked. Further, the reason he was underweight is known - an error in fueling before the final run.

According to everyone in F1 the punishment is exclusion. end of. get over it, they knowingly broke the rules. they should have pitted him, I don't believe they didn't know the fuel levels.

It's another bad ruling by the FIA; coming on top of a long history of bad rulings. It adds to the general picture that they're really not fit to run the sport. If there was a specific rule in place that required them to exclude him that would require a new look at the rules, but I know of no such rule. In fact, I'm pretty sure they have some degree of discretion in such cases based on how they've acted previously. So, instead, what you have is an organisation making yet another poor decision and applying a penalty well in excess of what is a reasonable response to the offence.

Are McLaren in error? Yes. Did Hamilton deserve a material penalty (as opposed to, say, a fine levelled at McLaren)? Perhaps. Did he deserve to be put to the back of the grid when he'd got to the final qualifying session fair and square, and already set a time putting him 5th? No. He didn't. That was completely over the top.

In any case, I suspect we're not going to agree over this, and I can't see that either of us are saying new instead of retreading the same set of points so this will be my last word on the matter in this thread. You, and others, can agree or disagree with me at your leisure :)
 
It's not nonsense at all. Look at any break of technical regulation and it's always disqualification as they could be running that at any time.

No such rule you have access do you? You are the one talking rubbish. They had one option and it was applied fairly. No realpolitik at the rules are needed. Mclaren should have pitted him, rather than do the lap anyway.

How come the people in the teams that study every single rule in detail and with lawyers disagree with you. Get over it, look who I support
 
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Twitter update:

Final round-up from tonight's dramas. Seems fire started due to a spark while emptying car fuel tank for transportation.

4 from Williams team, 4 from Caterham and 1 from F India still undergoing treatment. Burns and smoke inhalation. Fingers crossed for all.
 
Good job is was only Senna's car in the garage then :p

Tbh I was more worried about old Frank, guy is 70 and has just gone through the elation of a first GP win in 8 years? Then this happens during the celebrations, Can't be good for the ticker :/
 
Who said its destroyed? Sienna's car looks fine in all the pics. Other than needing a total strip down and clean, which they do anyway. I can't see any fire damage. I can't see heat affecting it, the temp these things run at anyway.
 
The fuel sample is taken at the end, only. There's no reason to think that he was running any other amount at any other time, or that anyone else is, has or does. It's not checked. Further, the reason he was underweight is known - an error in fueling before the final run.

Then he shouldn't have set the time. The team knew of the mistake so should have got him to pit and not set the hot lap to comply with the regulations.

He set the hot lap with the team in the knowledge that he would not fulfil the regulations. The team tried to argue for the act of god thing but that doesn't work when you don't bin it with a real problem.

By setting the lap and not being able to fulfil the regulations of the session they ultimately are trying to gain an advantage in an unfair manor and have been punished rightly. It is an incredibly simple case.
 
Slightly OT - but is that a Co2 flooding/purge system for use in places where water is best avoided?
I haven't heard of a Novec suppression system before (I am studying Fire Risk Engineering and have to design suppression systems/carry out hand calcs for all sorts of smoke production etc.)

This story has interested me greatly in the safety aspect of these older circuits and the fast moving world of F1 with it's variety of fuels, oil and now KERS battery packs enclosed in small concrete boxes!

I work for a fire suppression company and Novec is one of the 4 systems we used. The others are CO2, Argonite (a mix of Argon and Nitrogen), FM200 and Novec.
It used to be all Halon, but thats been banned due to being too damaging to the environment.

I would guess that a Novec system would be best for this, but I only design them. I'm not a consultant.
 
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I work for Kidde (small plug, hehe) and Novec is one of the 4 systems we used. The others are CO2, Argonite (a mix of Argon and Nitrogen), FM200 and Novec.
It used to be all Halon, but thats been banned due to being too damaging to the environment.

I would guess that a Novec system would be best for this, but I only design them. I'm not a consultant.

I can see it being something that all circuits will need to have in place soon.
 
Its always best to seek forgiveness in F1 due to the total inconsistently in punishments given out. You take the risk you take the punishment, those times when punishments are not dished out make it worth the risk.
 
I can see it being something that all circuits will need to have in place soon.

How good will it be in an open area? I wouldn't have thought it will be very effective in a well ventilated garage and it's not like you can shut the garage when you are not 100% sure someone isn't stuck inside.
 
How good will it be in an open area? I wouldn't have thought it will be very effective in a well ventilated garage and it's not like you can shut the garage when you are not 100% sure someone isn't stuck inside.

I cannot say really.

But I wouldnt be surprised if some sort of system is required for F1 pits in the future.

Either way, the type of system, method of discharge and requirments will be decided by a consultant. I just said Novec gas because I think it might be suitable. Well more suitable than water.
 
Pretty weird weekend feelings. Disappointed with Hamilton's penalty. They went with the letter of the law, which is fair enough. Still, half a second pole lap gap, I don't know how far you can get on a 3rd of a litre but it seems to me they would have been better off having him coast round? It's not like the other cars are on heavy fuel in Q3, I just don't feel 1st to last really fitted the bill. Meh, spilt milk and a good drive from Hamilton. Disappointing from JB considering the car clearly had pace.

Great to see Williams win. Really good to see another new winner. Really good to see the championship still as tight as a Marussia.

Shame to see the crazy fire. Hopefully the injuries aren't too severe.
 
STATEMENT FROM THE WILLIAMS F1 TEAM
Sunday 13 May 2012

After today's Spanish Grand Prix a fire occurred in the team's garage which originated from the fuel area.

Four team personnel were injured in the incident and subsequently taken to the medical centre. Three are now receiving treatment at local hospitals for their injuries, while the fourth has been released. The team will monitor their condition and ensure they receive the best possible care.

The team, the fire services and the police are working together to determine the root cause of the fire and an update statement will be released in due course.

The Williams F1 Team would like to thank all of the teams and the FIA for their support in today's incident.
 
Brilliant result for Williams, great to see them setting the pace for the first time in eight years. Season is looking brilliant at the moment, surely Lotus GP will get a win at some point , could we see a sixth team win in Monaco?
 
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