Spanish Grand Prix 2016, Catalunya - Race 5/21

Merlin5 said:
I'll probably get flack for this, but personally think the rule about leaving a gap is stupid. It's racing. In any sport, you do everything you can to stop someone overtaking you. If it results in an accident so be it. Lewis did the instinctive thing to try and overtake but clearly misjudged it, and Rosberg did what anyone would try and do to stop your rival from getting in front of you. Just basic, gut instinct.

Either take the risk and win or crash and burn. :p
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Oh God no! Have you seen public lobbies in racing games? we don't need a field full of Maldonado's in F1.

this_is_gav said:
I think half the problem is that in the past Rosberg has jumped out of the way and Hamilton has squeezed him off when they're wheel-to-wheel* that it's not even funny. Many people have thought it would have been nice for Nico to grow a pair and give Hamilton a taste of his own to an extent (not to push him off, but to make it difficult) and i think that's all he was doing.

To me no-one was fully to blame, it was just number of circumstances which led to it, and I think the body language of both showed they thought so too. Rosberg shouldn't have closed the door so brutally and Hamilton should have drove into a gap that was always going to disappear. In reality it was just the closing speed that left no time for either driver to do much about it once both had committed.

* People mention Bahrain (2012 was it?) when Rosberg ran Hamilton and Alonoso off, but Hamilton did this to Rosberg at least twice in 2014 too (on the exit of turn 3/4).
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AFAIK Hamilton (as well as many many other drivers) have squeezed opponents on the exit of corners. It may be a little harsh and aggressive at time but it is fair to do. However squeezing on corner exit is entirely different to side swiping / forcing a car off the road down a straight. It is plain and simple against the rules and against the rules for a good reason.
 
bayo000 said:
I don't disagree with that. However this was on a first lap with plenty of time to try a risky move later on if he couldn't do it safely. Hamilton needs to calm down on first lap.
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But then it is Barcelona and there is no real overtaking opportunities if the cars are pretty equally matched.

In fact look at Raikonnen stuck behind Verstappen for how many laps ?? just could not overtake at all, every time he got close enough he lost front down force.

If Hamilton had not taken that chance (however slim it may have been) he would have been stuck behind Rosberg for ages and unlikely to have got past later in the race as Rosberg had pit priority so Hamilton would not even have been able to try an undercut or change strategy.

Other circuits I woudl agree hanfg back and try later, but on this no one no, here you take your chance the instant it appears and give it 110% and do not back out or you will be stuck for an eternity
 
bayo000 said:
I don't disagree with that. However this was on a first lap with plenty of time to try a risky move later on if he couldn't do it safely. Hamilton needs to calm down on first lap.
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On this track you don't get many opportunities and it usually ends up a parade like Monaco.
 
bayo000 said:
I don't disagree with that. However this was on a first lap with plenty of time to try a risky move later on if he couldn't do it safely. Hamilton needs to calm down on first lap.
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I would agree normally - he can be overly agressive at times, but Hamilton had a 10mph speed advantage in this instance - I bet nearly every other driver on the grid would have done the same and tried to make a pass.

Unfortunately I think the large speed differential played a big part in causing the crash - Rosberg probably didn't realise how quickly he was gaining and once Hamilton has committed it was too late.
 
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Bahrain 2012 Nico Pushes Alonso off the track:



He also pushed Lewis off track in the same race.

Spain 2016 Nico Pushes Lewis Off the track:



Pictures don't lie but there are always those who will disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
 
I do wonder though about Lewis's ability this season. Whether he has pole or not, and he's had 3 pole positions so far this year, he seems to let Nico get in front. This didn't happen last season. When Lewis had poll, he stayed in front for the race. What has happened to him? Yesterday he let Nico get in front and then found himself panicking to recover the lead again, hence the crash. I just don't see Lewis winning the WDC this year unless something drastically changes.
 
Glanza said:
13179327_10153527428087411_675405909654008112_n.png
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So as I stated, Rosberg was deemed to have broken rule 27.7, but due to the circumstances (the speed at which it all happened) the FIA have decided to not penalize him for it.

IPBA said:
Bahrain 2012 Nico Pushes Alonso off the track:



He also pushed Lewis off track in the same race.

Spain 2016 Nico Pushes Lewis Off the track:



Pictures don't lie but there are always those who will disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
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Article 27.7 didn't exist in Bahrain 2012. In fact, it was specifically added to the regulations after that race predominantly because of those moves that Rosberg pulled on Alonso and Hamilton.
 
FrankJH said:
or he could have braked and got at the very least 18 valuable points.........
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quote-if-you-no-longer-go-for-a-gap-that-exists-you-are-no-longer-a-racing-driver-ayrton-senna-65-88-97.jpg


We don't watch racing to see people politiely operate an "after you, I insist" policy on overtaking.

I'd rather see a race where people try an overtake and balls it up than one where nobody bothers to even try in case they do.
 
Merlin5 said:
I do wonder though about Lewis's ability this season. Whether he has pole or not, and he's had 3 pole positions so far this year, he seems to let Nico get in front. This didn't happen last season. When Lewis had poll, he stayed in front for the race. What has happened to him?
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The clutch change seems to have caught him off guard; that and the fact that Nico wasn't really a factor last season compared to how well he is doing now. It all seems to have taken Lewis by surprise.
 
IPBA said:
Bahrain 2012 Nico Pushes Alonso off the track:

He also pushed Lewis off track in the same race.

Spain 2016 Nico Pushes Lewis Off the track:

Pictures don't lie but there are always those who will disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
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Yup that's racing.

Rosberg has sent a message to Lewis now that he is no push over. It's all about the mind games :)
 
Psi Jay said:
Please point me to an instance when Hamilton has closed the door on anyone like that halfway down a high speed straight.
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I meant that there was a chance to leapfrog Nico at least 2 pitstops either with the undercut (which of course Nico cant do being in the lead), but at the very least he ends up pushing further into the race rather than a do or die move on lap 1

Psi Jay said:
Yes Lewis should have waited, just like Ricci he could have gone from 1st to 4th due to pit stops, but Lewis would have won right? Or I guess he could have stayed behind and hoped to get past on the track just like Kimi couldn't and Ricci couldn't, you really don't understand this track if you think people can just whizz past at the drop of a hat.

How do you think Lewis in a merc is 3 times WDC and Rosberg in a merc is not? If you want something you have to go for it, and going for it in F1 is taking every opportunity to overtake while you can, especially on tracks like this, if you don't understand that basic concept then you don't understand racing.

/rant 2

:)

Jay
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your 2nd paragraph is exactly why the 1st one has no relevance. The merc is easily the fastest car, and would have at the worst been 2nd to Nico - the RBR while producing a decent race for the rest of the field isnt even close to the Merc on long runs. Also no reason at all to suggest LH would have been on a different strategy to Nico - Ricciardo was forced into doing an extra stop which cost him those positions.

Just for the record Ive been following F1 since before Damon Hill's debut so maybe dont come across so patronising in the future
 
Skeeter said:
We don't watch racing to see people politiely operate an "after you, I insist" policy on overtaking.

I'd rather see a race where people try an overtake and balls it up than one where nobody bothers to even try in case they do.
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stop being an idiot, I never suggested that and you know it.

2ndly for right or wrong F1 completely different to when AS was racing

It was a completely idiotic do or die move which was only ever going to end up one way.

When Lewis is out the front (much like a certain young german in the RBR) he time trials like the best of them, give him a bit of traffic and he often loses his head (positional traffic rather than back-markers before you attempt at being smart again)
 
FrankJH said:
It was a completely idiotic do or die move which was only ever going to end up one way.
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Lewis made the decision when there was a gap, then given his over speed quickly disappeared when Rosberg moved over.

These decisions are made in the blink of an eye, they commit themselves to a space and go for it.




FrankJH said:
Just for the record Ive been following F1 since before Damon Hill's debut so maybe dont come across so patronising in the future
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Then you will remember Australia 1994 when Hill saw an opportunity and went for it BUT, had he waited until the next corner then he would have been World Champion.

That's Racing... move along!!
It's always easy to offer an opinion after you watch several slow-motion replays - not so easy to always make the right decision when travelling at speed :)
 
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