Spec me a CCTV System

[Matrix]

@Matrix - some pictures of my two rear camera's. The first picture is the one that WJA96 recommends (recommended it to me too - can't fault it). The second picture is a cheaper one which does not have the built in LED light but is able to stay in full colour mode (actually I forced it to, instead of switching to IR) due to the dim street lighting by a parking area next to my garden.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34346624/

Thank you for that , you don't happen to have a picture or could take one please of being on the patio and how bright the light is off the camera do you please ?


Thanks

 

[Nitron]

Hi,

@WJA96 You said in a previous post that: "The SD cards are really intended for power cuts".
Does this mean the power supply of the cameras is different most of the time from the power supply of the NVR? Is there a standard/professsionnal way of doing that?

I am of course aware of the use of an UPS . The problem I see with the UPS is that you need far more battery capacity in order to keep the power for the NVR/XVR and the associated hard disk. For instance a Dahua TiOC camera takes (most of the time) 2W. Let's say that you have 6 cameras, this means 12W, so the whole bunch of cameras will draw 1A under 12V. The use of the NVR will take at least the same amount of power (hard disk always ON). And the UPS itself draws its own power and at the end you get (rough estimate) about 30-35W of power budget.

So for a newcomer like me it is tempting to secure the power only for the (critical) cameras (with local storage on SD cards). Especially since the TioC cameras have their own alarms/siren.

Since the Dahua cameras can support +/-30% voltage supply variation they should endure a battery charge/discharge voltage variations without any problems. And the battey could be recharged from a solar panel. Of course not directly but using a solar battery charger.

In this way if you're absent for 2-3 weeks the system is self-reliant. Another advantage I see for this solution is that traditionnal alarms battery powered become redundant with the surveillance cameras. In fact you can invest your money in a better surveillance cam system sparing the traditional alarm...

However I wonder if there are no unseen consequences... For instance a power cut could harm the hard disk of the NVR... Do you have any feedback onthese issues?

 

[fobose]

Thank you for that , you don't happen to have a picture or could take one please of being on the patio and how bright the light is off the camera do you please ?


Thanks

It hurts my eyes to look at when I put the rubbish out, but I just don't look up any more It doesn't create a huge flood of light on the patio. If you look at the last picture in the post I linked too, it shows a view of what my phone camera captured at the same time the other pictures were taken. You can see the patio is not lit up very much at all. It's enough for me to see where I am going when walking to my bins.

 

[Matrix]

It hurts my eyes to look at when I put the rubbish out, but I just don't look up any more It doesn't create a huge flood of light on the patio. If you look at the last picture in the post I linked too, it shows a view of what my phone camera captured at the same time the other pictures were taken. You can see the patio is not lit up very much at all. It's enough for me to see where I am going when walking to my bins.

Yes i did look at the pictures just worried out on the front it's like having spot lights on al the time etc that's not what i want to be honest . Bit of light won't be much more than the outside light we have on etc during the night .

 

[WJA96]

Hi,

@WJA96 You said in a previous post that: "The SD cards are really intended for power cuts".
Does this mean the power supply of the cameras is different most of the time from the power supply of the NVR? Is there a standard/professsionnal way of doing that?

I am of course aware of the use of an UPS . The problem I see with the UPS is that you need far more battery capacity in order to keep the power for the NVR/XVR and the associated hard disk. For instance a Dahua TiOC camera takes (most of the time) 2W. Let's say that you have 6 cameras, this means 12W, so the whole bunch of cameras will draw 1A under 12V. The use of the NVR will take at least the same amount of power (hard disk always ON). And the UPS itself draws its own power and at the end you get (rough estimate) about 30-35W of power budget.

So for a newcomer like me it is tempting to secure the power only for the (critical) cameras (with local storage on SD cards). Especially since the TioC cameras have their own alarms/siren.

Since the Dahua cameras can support +/-30% voltage supply variation they should endure a battery charge/discharge voltage variations without any problems. And the battey could be recharged from a solar panel. Of course not directly but using a solar battery charger.

In this way if you're absent for 2-3 weeks the system is self-reliant. Another advantage I see for this solution is that traditionnal alarms battery powered become redundant with the surveillance cameras. In fact you can invest your money in a better surveillance cam system sparing the traditional alarm...

However I wonder if there are no unseen consequences... For instance a power cut could harm the hard disk of the NVR... Do you have any feedback onthese issues?

Yes, I do often run a separate PoE switch for the cameras. Because the cameras are only 100Mbps LAN speed PoE switches are very cheap. You can get a 8 port with 30W per port and two gigabit uplinks for 60+VAT. And then you can use a Synology NAS because the processing is in the camera.

By all means give it a go on the SD cards but it’s really not the recommended mode of operation. Dahua have apparently recently upgraded the firmware to allow 256Gb Micro-SD cards so you would get a week’s worth of images on there or much more if you only record notifications.

Both Dahua and Hikvision sell solar kits for remote cameras with 4G connections but they’re £2000 and I’ve only ever seen them used by town councils (Norwich uses them a lot).

 

[WJA96]

Yes i did look at the pictures just worried out on the front it's like having spot lights on al the time etc that's not what i want to be honest . Bit of light won't be much more than the outside light we have on etc during the night .

After a couple of days you don’t even notice them. When you first put the cameras up (especially the bullets) you think OMG these are MASSIVE but after a couple of days they just blend into the background.

 

[fobose]

I'll see if I can take a picture in an hour when it's dark so you can see what the LED light looks like @Matrix.

 

[Matrix]

After a couple of days you don’t even notice them. When you first put the cameras up (especially the bullets) you think OMG these are MASSIVE but after a couple of days they just blend into the background.

Would you recommend a preference over turret to bullet etc and if so why please?

Thanks

 

[Matrix]

I'll see if I can take a picture in an hour when it's dark so you can see what the LED light looks like @Matrix.

Thank you so much , don't burn your eyes out though

 

[fobose]

Thank you so much , don't burn your eyes out though

*edit* I've just tried turning the LED off and it still shows pretty clear and in full colour. The dim street light in the parking area had needed its bulb replacing and was only replaced about 4 weeks ago so I had to use the LED before.

LED on:

LED off:

 

[WJA96]

Would you recommend a preference over turret to bullet etc and if so why please?

Thanks

LED Power - the bullet has two LEDS vs. the turret's one. The bullet is rated to 40m in the dark and the turret only 20m. And there is an argument that the bullet's are better made with better cooling and they have the little sunshade over the lens. Given the choice I always specify the bullet but you won't be unhappy with the turret.

It's worth noting that the 8MP version of the TiOC only has 20m range on the bullet and 10m on the turret because of the relative insensitivity of the sensor and aperture required (f1.6) vs. the 5MP and the 2MP (both f1.0).

 

[WJA96]

*edit* I've just tried turning the LED off and it still shows pretty clear and in full colour. The dim street light in the parking area had needed its bulb replacing and was only replaced about 4 weeks ago so I had to use the LED before.

LED on:

LED off:

I'm really surprised how good both the 5MP TiOC and the 2MP cheapie camera are with just the streetlighting in use.

 

[fobose]

I'm really surprised how good both the 5MP TiOC and the 2MP cheapie camera are with just the streetlighting in use.

Me too! The cheap garden camera is 5MP (Dahua IPC-HFW2531SP-S-S2-360). It looks a bit grainy compared to the TIOC but still good considering it is just over half the cost.

Having the LED off on the TIOC stops the water vapour (from boiler exhaust) from being so obvious now, I can barely see it. I still think it was fog on my video I showed you the other week. I will wait till it's foggy and double check it in case I was wrong.

 

[WJA96]

I installed one exactly the same. It was above a gas cooker vent that just opened and 'breathed' when the pressure in the house got a bit much. And there were these amazing updrafts of water vapour.

The easy way to confirm if it was fog or not is to check the Full Color you have covering your drive. If it was foggy in that as well then you know it's fog.

 

[Matrix]

*edit* I've just tried turning the LED off and it still shows pretty clear and in full colour. The dim street light in the parking area had needed its bulb replacing and was only replaced about 4 weeks ago so I had to use the LED before.

LED on:

LED off:

Thank you for that doesn’t look as bad as I thought . I assume in settings you could switch that off if you wished ?


Thank you for taking the time to do that for me much appreciated

 

[Matrix]

LED Power - the bullet has two LEDS vs. the turret's one. The bullet is rated to 40m in the dark and the turret only 20m. And there is an argument that the bullet's are better made with better cooling and they have the little sunshade over the lens. Given the choice I always specify the bullet but you won't be unhappy with the turret.

It's worth noting that the 8MP version of the TiOC only has 20m range on the bullet and 10m on the turret because of the relative insensitivity of the sensor and aperture required (f1.6) vs. the 5MP and the 2MP (both f1.0).

Thank you for your information and time will look some more in this now then .

Thanks

 

[fobose]

I installed one exactly the same. It was above a gas cooker vent that just opened and 'breathed' when the pressure in the house got a bit much. And there were these amazing updrafts of water vapour.

The easy way to confirm if it was fog or not is to check the Full Color you have covering your drive. If it was foggy in that as well then you know it's fog.

Strangely the drive did not suffer from the 'fog' that I mention - it is sheltered though as it's under the garage eaves. The other cheap garden camera did suffer from the fog (it was in IR mode at the time), and it is not near anything mechanical.

I do get the updrafts of water vapour from the boiler exhaust but they look different IMO. I will check though just to put my mind at rest and make sure I am not going mad!

Thank you for that doesn’t look as bad as I thought . I assume in settings you could switch that off if you wished ?

Thank you for taking the time to do that for me much appreciated

No problem, happy to help! Yup, setting is in the 'Conditions' menu as pictured below. I've left it off now as it's not needed.

 

[Matrix]

Right a few more questions sorry ,

Been looking at things this morning on the web installing etc .

Was thinking of putting the NVR originally in the attic think now as it may be better to put in in my sons cupboard with a switcher and way I'd possibly run the wires in the attic and to it .


Seems looking on youtube you need to connect the NVR at first to a monitor and set it up . Could i do this in the office downstairs first before moving it it's permanent place as I don't have any monitors i could take upstairs other than a laptop and I'm guessing that wouldn't link up to it directly ?

Once in the cupboard plan on running 20/30 meter ethernet POE cable from NVR to camera to connect . Watching vids I've noticed that they have a ethernet connection and a power connector ( which of course using POE I wouldn't use) Now if I mount the camera possibly bullet to the wall and then drill through the wall to feed the camera would both cables be long enough for this ?. OR am I best to get a out door junction box and put cables in there and just drill a hole out the wall for the ethernet cable from NVR to connect ?

Also do those round junction box allow a bullet camera to be mounted on ?


As for the camera I've seen they have blue and red lights and an alarm sound when someone breaks the trip wire can you turn these off if you wish ?


Looking at camera models and there seems loads but was looking at something maybe like a Dahua DH-IPC-HFW3549T1-AS-PV WizSense TiOC Outdoor HD PoE Bullet IP Camera w/ 3.6mm Lens, 40m Full Colour, Audio & Alarm (5 MP)

And a NVR like Dahua DHI-NVR4104HS-P-4KS2 Lite 1-Bay NVR Network Video Recorder Enclosure (4-Channels)


Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be asking more question when i think of them .

 

[WJA96]

Was thinking of putting the NVR originally in the attic think now as it may be better to put in in my sons cupboard with a switch and way I'd possibly run the wires in the attic and to it .

That’s fine. Just one cable.

Seems looking on youtube you need to connect the NVR at first to a monitor and set it up . Could i do this in the office downstairs first before moving it it's permanent place as I don't have any monitors i could take upstairs other than a laptop and I'm guessing that wouldn't link up to it directly ?

You can do everything over the web interface. No need for a display.

Once in the cupboard plan on running 20/30 meter ethernet POE cable from NVR to camera to connect . Watching vids I've noticed that they have a ethernet connection and a power connector ( which of course using POE I wouldn't use) Now if I mount the camera possibly bullet to the wall and then drill through the wall to feed the camera would both cables be long enough for this ?. OR am I best to get a out door junction box and put cables in there and just drill a hole out the wall for the ethernet cable from NVR to connect ?

The ones with the separate power supply are analogue systems (DVR or XVR). Stop watching those videos. They’re not helpful.

Also do those round junction box allow a bullet camera to be mounted on ?

Yes, that’s what they’re for.

As for the camera I've seen they have blue and red lights and an alarm sound when someone breaks the trip wire can you turn these off if you wish ?

Yes, you can even set different active times.

Looking at camera models and there seems loads but was looking at something maybe like a Dahua DH-IPC-HFW3549T1-AS-PV WizSense TiOC Outdoor HD PoE Bullet IP Camera w/ 3.6mm Lens, 40m Full Colour, Audio & Alarm (5 MP)

And a NVR like Dahua DHI-NVR4104HS-P-4KS2 Lite 1-Bay NVR Network Video Recorder Enclosure (4-Channels).

Yes, that will all work together.

 

[Siliconslave]

Don't know about the Dahua but my Hik NVR is pretty noisy (even with replacement fans) so may not want it in the cupboard... i was going to have mine in a guest room but ended up being too loud for that.