Spec me a fun 2+2
- Thread starter mjt
- Start date
One of the few times I'll ever agree with you
Impressive how the S2 prices are creeping back up again.
Surely 1M is modern classic/hold value territory tho? One popped up earlier and it was 90k...That's what making the choice so difficult. It's incredibly good value for money and will cost me nothing other than tax, insurance & depreciation as it will be a new car with a very long warranty.
Anything else - 1M, M2, Elise, Caterham, etc. will be €10-20k more without a doubt, and that's purchase price alone.
Head over heart this time perhaps?
I’m starting to look at S3 220s too. They’re the same price as they were when I last looked at them 6 years ago!!
I know this is the worst time of the year to buy a car like this, but are they likely to drop at the end of the year when the weather turns? Maybe the downside is less availability?
I don’t want to hijack mjt’s thread. I know the S1/S2 is the more sensible choice, but I only really like the S3. Also not a fan of modified cars at all.
I have an S3 Sport 220. Had an S3 1.6 Touring before that. They are both special and an event to drive. Every time. Always get lots of positive attention. The 1.6 has 80% of the magic but can be easily embarrassed in a straight line (though the purists know that's not what it's about!). The S3 220 is fast, and has lots of nicer features. I bought mine as a custom factory build, went to see it being built, and I've barely lost money so far. It'll probably appreciate above what I paid soon. As for S1, S2 and early S3s, the only way is up now I think. Servicing is cheap and fixed price at the dealers. Insurance is not bad for me (relatively speaking - all insurance is a rip right now). Mathematically, when looking for a sports car/hot hatch, it was all-in the cheapest over the 3 years I worked out due to low depreciation, cheap servicing etc.
Before kids I had one as a main car. Not the most practical and the boot will warm up your shopping but I loved it. Now I have one as a second car due to family requirements. Can't see me ever selling it. On the right b-roads on a nice day in the UK, I don't know what is better than the Elise. The handling, sense of speed, fun etc. More power can't be easily exploited and the only more engaging options are less practical and more 'raw' - e.g. Caterham, maybe a bike! I also have a Focus ST and it's not as 'fun' until pretty illegal speeds.
If you don't think it works for you on paper then don't test drive one as you'll probably want to buy it regardless..
Before kids I had one as a main car. Not the most practical and the boot will warm up your shopping but I loved it. Now I have one as a second car due to family requirements. Can't see me ever selling it. On the right b-roads on a nice day in the UK, I don't know what is better than the Elise. The handling, sense of speed, fun etc. More power can't be easily exploited and the only more engaging options are less practical and more 'raw' - e.g. Caterham, maybe a bike! I also have a Focus ST and it's not as 'fun' until pretty illegal speeds.
If you don't think it works for you on paper then don't test drive one as you'll probably want to buy it regardless..
They are a lot of money initially so depends on your circumstances and what you perceive as value. I would happily have GT86 or GR86 as the philosophy appeals to me too but it’s quite a different experience to an Elise. A GT86 might be better value now and more practical, but it’s not as special. I’ve driven one to compare, but if on less of a budget I’d probably have one. BMWs I’m not into. Modern ones at least. Never driven one that got me that excited, including an M4.
I keep a pair of earplugs in the car but don’t use them all that much. I would reach for them on long motorway drives or long distance journeys but most of the time you want to hear all the noises. Exhaust can vary a lot depending on the car. The newer Sport 220s have a much sportier and frankly louder exhaust than the previous Elise Sport (pre MY17.5 I think). This is something easily customised aftermarket. My 1.6 could have been mistaken for the Auris the engine was derived from. At the end of the day a 4-pot can only sound so good though. It’s nice, but nothing compared to more exotic stuff with 6+ cylinders, including the Toyota V6 Exige/Evora/Emira etc. Possibly a weak point for an enthusiast but it still has plenty of presence and sounds great.
If you’re really serious go see a dealer and have a look. They are obviously more refined than a Caterham but still pretty stripped back so may not appeal to you, don’t know. Getting in and out is not a flattering thing either until you’ve had some practice.
I keep a pair of earplugs in the car but don’t use them all that much. I would reach for them on long motorway drives or long distance journeys but most of the time you want to hear all the noises. Exhaust can vary a lot depending on the car. The newer Sport 220s have a much sportier and frankly louder exhaust than the previous Elise Sport (pre MY17.5 I think). This is something easily customised aftermarket. My 1.6 could have been mistaken for the Auris the engine was derived from. At the end of the day a 4-pot can only sound so good though. It’s nice, but nothing compared to more exotic stuff with 6+ cylinders, including the Toyota V6 Exige/Evora/Emira etc. Possibly a weak point for an enthusiast but it still has plenty of presence and sounds great.
If you’re really serious go see a dealer and have a look. They are obviously more refined than a Caterham but still pretty stripped back so may not appeal to you, don’t know. Getting in and out is not a flattering thing either until you’ve had some practice.
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Caporegime
I thought the OP's point was he wanted something fun that he could bring the kids along hence why the GR86 is a good shout because it is very practical in that respect.
I would also argue that a Caterham and Elise are both pretty similar and the Caterham even more focused so might as well just get another Caterham then.
I would also argue that a Caterham and Elise are both pretty similar and the Caterham even more focused so might as well just get another Caterham then.
The 1.6 was an odd one. It happened after the Toyota ZZ engines ended production. They didn't make it for long
It had the weight of an S3 but less torque than S2 S it replaced. It was about a second slower to 60. My S2 is loud enough to need ear plugs on long trips even with the stock exhaust. Otherwise the ear fatigue is real.
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Not wanting to go too OT but it was still a great car, obviously not the pick of the bunch but it was the one I could afford and as said, had 80% of the experience of what the more powerful ones do, in my opinion at least. Another good point was it was amazing on fuel and cheap to insure/service. I get half the MPG from the Sport 220.
If you want a stock N/A Elise then I think the Elise R was the one to go for which was S2 with the 2ZZ IIRC with about 190 bhp. I can imagine that would be a good balanced car. If I had one now I wouldn’t be selling though so no idea on prices.
Yeah that’s what I thought in terms of requirements too but I’m one for finding the right tool for the job so 2+ cars is my preference as I’m fortunate enough to be able to do that. I would be in favour of the GR86 in that case, although I think the back seats stretch the definition of +2. Bigger than that though and you’re out of sports car territory and more into hot hatch or GT type vehicles?
If I was only taking it out Sundays, occasionally hitting the track then I would agree that the Caterham may be better. However I don’t track the car, will drive it in all weather and often use it on average once per week to commute. So Elise wins there. Not that I didn’t consider a Caterham. A few colleagues have them and they look fun but the track day costs are high and I’m not that into it or have the time at this point in my life.
The 2zz cars are getting harder to find and very expensive now though. The 1zz engined car (the old "Sport" before they all got superchargers) is good too, also cheap to run and less to go wrong than the others. But yep people just don't want to sell them now.
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Not planning to track anything of mine any time soon. Was looking at Elise, Caterham, etc. last night but they're just so expensive I can't justify it. You're looking at a minimum spend of £50k, potentially even more for recent ones. I can't believe how much things cost over here these days..
The rear seats in the GR/BRZ are so pathetic it might as well be a 2-seater. Early OG M2s are back in play now..
I'm going round in circles here :/
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I've always wanted an M car but prices are all over the place, and people seem to think that non-OPF cars are worth paying overs for...
I want a manual OG or LCI, and finding one that hasn't been modified is impossibly difficult. What are the chances of something expensive breaking within 12 months? Happy to pay a bit more for a 12-month BMW warranty but dealers' pricing is even worse than the private dreamers.
Manual LCIs are more expensive that M2Cs and I don't want an M2C as it means £5k in taxes (compared to £1.5 for the OG)
Caporegime
33 grand for a less than 30k mileage, manual M2 comp over here. I guess at least you get cheap chocolates over there!
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I’m looking at £10k more than that.
If it holds its value it’s not a problem per se. Everything’s expensive
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Soldato
I don't remember having any warranty issues at all with my LCI and I've not had any yet with the Comp. There are potential issues though - boost pipes are reported as common failure issues, water pumps and injectors can have problems and some other small things iirc. The warranty is quite inexpensive for the peace of mind it gives you, so well worth having IMO.
I personally wouldn't buy a manual. I understand why people do but the gearchange is typically BMW ie not that good. DCT suits the character of the car unless you want to be a total hooligan with it.
Yeah I know BMW manuals are nothing to write home about, but I'd like the "fun" car to be a manual... But if it's an M2 then the premium they appear to command may not be worth the trade off. I might even end up using the DCT as a daliy instead of my i3S - and that's not what I was planning here