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‘Death by a Thousand Paper Cuts’
Four animators say unsustainable working conditions are behind the success of Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse.
www.vulture.com
www.vulture.com
Watched it a second time yesterday. Still so utterly sublime, and my previous gripe about the pacing, on second viewing I think it's fine as it is.
If anything happens to Gwen in the next film, especially after what she said about Gwen getting with Peter in other universes always not ending well and the whole canon plot point...they've done such an amazing job developing these characters, I think it's gonna break me watching that.
If anything happens to Gwen in the next film, especially after what she said about Gwen getting with Peter in other universes always not ending well and the whole canon plot point...they've done such an amazing job developing these characters, I think it's gonna break me watching that.
I'm curious how you guys what you guys would change then? Simply extend it by what, 20 minutes? 30 minutes? Just to wrap things up with Spot, Prowler Miles, getting Miles back to his universe, whatever Gwen's fate is, all neat and tidy in one movie? That just sounds like it would bring it down massively, rushing the ending to tie everything up.
They're clearly building something more intricate and impactful than a villain-of-the-week. I mean, they literally mock Spot calling him that. Plus we have an increased focus on Gwen, and fleshing out her own backstory, and her relationship with Miles. If they keep talking about the whole determinism and canon aspect of Spider-Man's known story, and we all know what happens to Gwen normally, would we get a better, emotionally-hitting outcome to her story thread if they have to cram it in between all the other stuff mentioned above?
They're clearly building something more intricate and impactful than a villain-of-the-week. I mean, they literally mock Spot calling him that. Plus we have an increased focus on Gwen, and fleshing out her own backstory, and her relationship with Miles. If they keep talking about the whole determinism and canon aspect of Spider-Man's known story, and we all know what happens to Gwen normally, would we get a better, emotionally-hitting outcome to her story thread if they have to cram it in between all the other stuff mentioned above?
I'm all for actually fleshing the characters and story out and letting it breath, than making sure everything fits into 2-3 hours. How can you care for characters if you don't spend time with them, and how can the emotional parts hit as hard if you don't care for the characters? It's part of the reason why a lot of the MCU movies are just predictable and boring now. You know they're gonna win. There are no stakes. Literally villain of the week gets dealt with and everyone cheers.
I watched the original and this a week apart with my son as Sky were giving away free cinema tickets. It's not the sort of film I'd normally go to watch but overall we enjoyed them.
The pacing felt a bit off, slow in the beginning, speeds up but then you realise they are going to string it out and to a "to be continued...". I don't particularly have an issue with them needing another movie although I think my son was disappointed as waiting a year or whatever feels like a lifetime at that age.
The pacing felt a bit off, slow in the beginning, speeds up but then you realise they are going to string it out and to a "to be continued...". I don't particularly have an issue with them needing another movie although I think my son was disappointed as waiting a year or whatever feels like a lifetime at that age.
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Permabanned
I didn't feel like that at the end of the first one iirc, it finished nicely from what I remember.
Associate
6/10, not as good as the first and a little over the top. The artistic style was a little much at times and the constant colour changing and bleeding walls just became annoying. Wouldn't rush to watch it again.
Either the film should have been wholly self contained or it should have concluded it’s episodic instalment in a more satisfactory manner.
The best example of a film concluding the ‘episodic’ plot whilst leaving the future open is ‘The Empire Strikes Back’. That leaves it very open as to what will happen next, making you excited for what could happen.
Meanwhile, the new Spider-Man film seemingly blows its load entirely before leaving it hanging. I think it’s very poor to ramp up the tension that much, set up the sequel in a paint by numbers way, introduce new threats, then just end ‘mid tension’. It’s unpleasantly unresolved and, frankly, bad.
Other decent examples of films that don’t take the mick like this with sequel set ups are the Lord of the Rings films. Heck, even Infinity Wars left us ‘hanging’ in a shocking way but in a far more ‘concluding / leaving it open’. Comparatively, the new Spider-Man was like a book being snatched out of your hands mid-read.
When you’ve annoyed your audience, you’ve dropped a ball.
Still, there’s lots to enjoy about the film and I won’t say that it ruined it entirely.
As mentioned in an earlier post, I personally would have preferred a slightly leaner first half (taking out 15-25 mins) and have the whole thing more substantially wrapped up… or at least ending in a more ESB kind of way.
The best example of a film concluding the ‘episodic’ plot whilst leaving the future open is ‘The Empire Strikes Back’. That leaves it very open as to what will happen next, making you excited for what could happen.
Meanwhile, the new Spider-Man film seemingly blows its load entirely before leaving it hanging. I think it’s very poor to ramp up the tension that much, set up the sequel in a paint by numbers way, introduce new threats, then just end ‘mid tension’. It’s unpleasantly unresolved and, frankly, bad.
Other decent examples of films that don’t take the mick like this with sequel set ups are the Lord of the Rings films. Heck, even Infinity Wars left us ‘hanging’ in a shocking way but in a far more ‘concluding / leaving it open’. Comparatively, the new Spider-Man was like a book being snatched out of your hands mid-read.
When you’ve annoyed your audience, you’ve dropped a ball.
Still, there’s lots to enjoy about the film and I won’t say that it ruined it entirely.
As mentioned in an earlier post, I personally would have preferred a slightly leaner first half (taking out 15-25 mins) and have the whole thing more substantially wrapped up… or at least ending in a more ESB kind of way.
Yep, they could have trimmed a little from the start to have the concluding fight for an extra 20 minutes. They didn't even need to have properly defeated Spot, either make it look like he was beaten or that the good guys were. Wrapping this movie up in one doesn't affect the overall arc of the series of films. We're talking about the multiverse so presumably they (or the baddies) can jump in to another universe at any point.
IF you don't have enough time to tell your whole story in one film I'd have gone the other way on the ending tbh, pulled back some and made the escape from Spider-man 2099 the end, no reveal about the wrong universe, no prowler, no Gwen conversation with her dad or looking in on Miles, I'd save all that for the next film.
I think 2 things I'm struggling to understand:
- Speaking of the actual movie itself overall, if everything was great up until the ending, if we're going down the "it should have been self-contained and concluded in this film" option, why would the prospect of another movie that was more of the same, if not even better, not be something to be excited for? Into the Spider-Verse was great. This was even better, IMO by a long shot. The simple fact that splitting it into 2 parts will give us more time with this great thing they've created makes me happy.
- If we're talking about how it should have been more "satisfyingly concluded"...why? I don't really get what difference it makes. The story evolved to the point of needing 2 films regardless. They were going to have to choose some point to end this one. Why not do it at a point that will actually make me itch to watch the next part? That's what a cliffhanger is there to do. They've established a lot of questions/plot points that I now want to know the answers to:
- How powerful is Spot now?
- What happens between Miles and Prowler Miles?
- How does Gwen's new team play into all this? Are they going after Miles? Are they going after Spot? After Miguel?
- Will Gwen still have the same fate she normally does, or will they go against it? Does Miles have any part in averting/confirming her fate?
- How does Miles get back to his own universe?
- Will the Spider Society still play a role in all this? To take down Spot?
- What's Miguel's plan if he catches up to Miles?
What questions would I have had it ended after he escapes Miguel? What would I have to entice me to see the next film? Quite little in comparison, other than to finish what they started, which I would've done anyway. At least now, there are lots of things I want to know the answers to.
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Waiting for this to come out digitally is a pain! I dunno if anyone who goes to pubs knows when to expect this, so I can watch it for a second time? 
The finale, sadly, is gonna be delayed by the current strikes. Another problem with this 2 part film trend.
I guess Sony don't really have a streaming platform and the film has been really successful, so there's no rush. Other (not as good) films have literally come out after this and are already available to stream or buy digitally.
rp2000
The finale, sadly, is gonna be delayed by the current strikes. Another problem with this 2 part film trend.I guess Sony don't really have a streaming platform and the film has been really successful, so there's no rush. Other (not as good) films have literally come out after this and are already available to stream or buy digitally.
rp2000
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Next MonthWaiting for this to come out digitally is a pain! I dunno if anyone who goes to pubs knows when to expect this, so I can watch it for a second time?
I guess Sony don't really have a streaming platform and the film has been really successful, so there's no rush. Other (not as good) films have literally come out after this and are already available to stream or buy digitally.
rp2000
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“Fell off the back of a van, mate.”Next Month
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Bar Maid told me
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on digital August 8 Tracy said while sipping er Beer
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I was trying to think of some witty pub comment to bump this thread, and in the end you just beat me with a basic smiley!
Second viewing tonight, cannot wait!
rp2000