**SPOILERS** Football 26th Feb - 2nd Mar 2011

LoL :D I agree!

Fletcher is good for the games where we need to hustle the midfield away from home against the bigger teams, he did do in the first half and then went missing in the second.

At the end of the day that was the best midfield we could have put out, so until the summer when hopefully he will splash the cash we have to grin and bare it.
 
guyfawkes5 said:
He's at least a considerable factor.

Even when we're playing well I still notice him at least slowing down or choking our play, or at worst making mistakes all on his own. He doesn't seem capable of raising his game anymore and we shouldn't have to rely on great performances from everyone else around him to cover that up.

Yeah other mistakes were made and some other factors outside our control came into play (:mad:), but surely it mustn't help to have dead weight in a vital area?
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I make no joke when i say that Carrick has been awful,a nd im not the only one to notice.

and thats not just because he goes quietly about his job. Its because he is anonymous in his role.

I keep stating indisputable evidence, such as the Barca loss in the CL final, where they ran at him and he just let them through to score

I watch text commentary on sportinglife when i cant see the game and one i think it was the 27th minute when the writer had written, 'oh theres carrick, i didnt even realise he was playing. It was carrick mess up that allowed chelsea to score in the previous CL final.

Bayern munich, before HT, if he wins the header, or makes a decent challenge on their striker on the 6 yard box, its not 3-1 or whatever it was, and we arent in a pickle.

Just google, Carrick sucks, or carrick terrible.

Youll soon see.

G|mp said:
LoL :D I agree!
At the end of the day that was the best midfield we could have put out, so until the summer when hopefully he will splash the cash we have to grin and bare it.
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I cant tell if your agreeing with me, but the point that annoys me is that ive been saying this for a LONG time, and everyone is like, SHH you dont know what your talking about, fergie knows best.

Yet here we are 2 years later and finally people are saying we just have to grin and bear it. well we shouldnt have to any longer!!

The reason we won the CL was this. Rooney and Ronaldo setting the world alight. 2 of the best young players playing the best football, possibly of their careers in the same team. It didnt necessarily matter that we were a bit ropey at times, because Ronaldo thumps Wolves singlehandedly and gets us 3 points. Done deal. Now we dont have a 30-40 goal a year winger/forward and an on fire rooney, suddenly we cant do anything and our glaring midfield weakness shines through.
 
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For the record, I've had Shami and others berate me for wishing death (and such) on Carrick and Gibson so I think it's safe to say I already 'see'.
 
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guyfawkes5 said:
I don't get what you're getting at here.

If you mean you exagerrated how you felt a few pages back for comedic effect, then yeah I understand.
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I mean I thought the original post was funny, and if you then ask me "Well would it be funny if he moved for less?", my reaction is "well, no, because it's less", but if you're asking me to actually specify what I think a reasonable amount for Nani is, I don't really know.

I don't really think 25% is that great a difference, obviously if we're talking £10 million it seems like a lot on its own but I would say that once you're getting into huge-ish sums the proportion of skill to price skews a bit. For instance a proven and good striker might go for £15 million, but a truly excellent one might go for £30 million. This doesn't mean the first player is half the skill of the second player, in reality the skill difference might be 10-20%. The point is that the club's paying for the second player's skill which might be twice as rare as the first player which justifies the price tag. Ergo I would say £10 or so million wouldn't mean Nani is THAT much better, maybe just better by a not insignificant amount.
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Ah, but this is a point I repeatedly see made which doesn't really ring true. As I said before, the money paid for a player isn't just a reflection on his ability, but also on how much the buying team want him, and how willing (or forced) the selling club are to let him go.

Darren Bent, for instance, went for almost £25m, despite being a £15m striker by your point (decent, but not excellent), because Villa needed him, and so had to force Sunderland to sell.

He's good enough for us, and has rescued us from some bad situations in the past. Is there such a gulf between us and Real?

All this is tangental to the stats and stuff I said earlier by the way; is he half the man of Cesc or some other fraction? Why?
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Cesc is very, very good player. Barcelona really want to buy him. We really don't want to let him go. Ergo, he's worth silly money.

Nani is decent. Real Madrid have never shown any interest in him. He's probably, what, your 5th most important player? At best? Thus, he's not worth silly money.
 
Just to tie this up, you only stated the sum was funny in relation to his skill, not other external factors which I acknowledged already.

And to clarify on pricing, I sort of meant independently, obviously those other factors can come into play but my point was that Nani being £10 million more or less doesn't necessarily mean he's a whole Charlie Adam better or worse skilled for it, if you get what I mean?
 
Nani is FAR better than just decent,

Go back watch the city game, see him take on the city world class defence time and time again, watch him score a beaut.

real madrid have less interest in Nani because they already have ronaldo who is better than him, and more powerful. But thats not to say that Nani in his own right isnt a great player.

Nani is decent. Real Madrid have never shown any interest in him. He's probably, what, your 5th most important player? At best? Thus, he's not worth silly money.
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This season id say he has been in the top 4... VDS? Vidic, Berbatov (but now fading) Nani...Evra started quite quietly compared to last season, but has come better of late. He was very good attacking wise vs chelsea.


Sure he is a bit inconsistent and anyone can see that he makes the wrong decisions every so often. But he is still young and can still work on that.
 
Yeah I think he'd be higher than top five too, and with Van The Man being put out to Shhtud at the end of this season the only way he can move is up.
 
Nickg said:
I cant tell if your agreeing with me, but the point that annoys me is that ive been saying this for a LONG time, and everyone is like, SHH you dont know what your talking about, fergie knows best.

Yet here we are 2 years later and finally people are saying we just have to grin and bear it. well we shouldnt have to any longer!!
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What :confused: Nearly every United fan has been saying we need to strengthen the midfield for years.

guyfawkes5 said:
For the record, I've had Shami and others berate me for wishing death (and such) on Carrick and Gibson so I think it's safe to say I already 'see'.
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I think you might have me confused with someone else if you think I'd defend Gibson.
 
Team in full: Almunia, Eboue, Squillaci, Miquel, Gibbs, Diaby, Denilson, Rosicky, Chamakh, Henderson, Bendtner

Subs: Szczesny, Sagna, Nasri, Wilshere, Djourou, Clichy, Arshavin
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Worst arsenal team I've seen in years!
 
Nickg said:
I cant tell if your agreeing with me, but the point that annoys me is that ive been saying this for a LONG time, and everyone is like, SHH you dont know what your talking about, fergie knows best.

Yet here we are 2 years later and finally people are saying we just have to grin and bear it. well we shouldnt have to any longer!!

The reason we won the CL was this. Rooney and Ronaldo setting the world alight. 2 of the best young players playing the best football, possibly of their careers in the same team. It didnt necessarily matter that we were a bit ropey at times, because Ronaldo thumps Wolves singlehandedly and gets us 3 points. Done deal. Now we dont have a 30-40 goal a year winger/forward and an on fire rooney, suddenly we cant do anything and our glaring midfield weakness shines through.
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I agree with you entirely but in the past you have spoken of how we need to clear out the likes of Giggs and Scholes because they are passed it, yet at the moment they are the only ones doing anything.

I've been saying for 12 months how Carrick needs to be moved on because he's lost something. Gibson needs shooting, I said ages ago how he hadn't improved from when he was on loan at Wolves but at the minute it is all we have.
 
G|mp said:
I agree with you entirely but in the past you have spoken of how we need to clear out the likes of Giggs and Scholes because they are passed it, yet at the moment they are the only ones doing anything.

I've been saying for 12 months how Carrick needs to be moved on because he's lost something. Gibson needs shooting, I said ages ago how he hadn't improved from when he was on loan at Wolves but at the minute it is all we have.
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Carrick's confidence has gone and he can't seem to come back from it. As long as we're in the ascendancy he's fine, he gets pressured into making one mistake and that's it.

Gibson is pants, Fletcher is having a bad season but I'd keep happily, Hargreaves is dead, Scholes and Giggs are getting on, Anderson is so bloody inconsistent.

One or two midfielders and a goalkeeper and we're set.
 
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