Stand Your Ground

[Chris Wilson]

America is a mess - And it's too late to fix it

Don't be so pessimistic, one fixer has just got fixed. I bet the disabled parking bays are full of, err, just the disabled for a while in Florida And people will be asking, "Is it OK to pull my ludicrously too big shorts up please?", after assaulting someone. All good!

 

[Thekwango]

in fairness, non disabled people parking in disabled bays should be shot.

 

[IronWarrior]

Once the gun was pulled there was clearly time to decide if he was at more risk. Did the other guy move towards him? No.
Therefore he wasn't at immediate risk and should be charged with killing someone.

It's easy to say that he had clearly enough time watching it on youtube, but 3 seconds isn't that long when you get physically attacked, anything can happen in that time.

 

[danielanthony]

Well firstly the laws are the laws. Secondly he could still be charged will probably depend on how good the lawyer arguing the case and how good the state lawyer is. Smells a bit like racism so maybe they can find a connection.

Life can be so cheap.

Of course, don't forget to play that race card.

 

[Roar87]

Don't park in disabled bays if you aren't disabled, don't assault people when confronted about parking in disabled bays. Really easy ways to avoid being shot.

I've been to Florida, I wouldn't dream of aggressively confronting someone over there, let alone pushing someone to the ground, any disputes are kept civil and polite. It's very easy to do.

 

[jsmoke]

Once the gun was pulled there was clearly time to decide if he was at more risk. Did the other guy move towards him? No.
Therefore he wasn't at immediate risk and should be charged with killing someone.

Self defence is one thing - shooting someone in that situation is very very different. The fact this person has threatened to shoot someone in the past for parking there says it all.

But the police dept cant do anything as it would prove American gun laws are wrong...

Yep a weird case. There must be plenty of say 18 year olds that get into fights(well going by youtube, maybe not though) - that say push each other over etc, so technically they are legally allowed to shoot someone to death.

You know the story, brad calls zach a douchebag in front of his ex gf, zach pushes brad onto the ground, brad kills zach with one shot and claims stand your ground. It's essentially the same as this. Where do you draw the line..

 

[jsmoke]

Of course, don't forget to play that race card.

You know it's a real thing with a long history in the US though. It's not and hasn't ever been here. Maybe in the 60's-80's there was some racial problems but nothing like the US. So people do hate other races over thereand it is a reason to trigger someone in the heat of the moment to shoot someone.

 

[The IPB]

I can't believe how little some Americans value life, it's sickening.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Watched the video multiple times.

That is messed up, you can clearly see both of his hands and he backs off.... then delay. Then shot.

 

[Moley]

At the very least the shooter should stand trial - it's for a Judge and Jury to examine the facts and exhonorate or convict him.

 

[danielanthony]

You know it's a real thing with a long history in the US though. It's not and hasn't ever been here. Maybe in the 60's-80's there was some racial problems but nothing like the US. So people do hate other races over thereand it is a reason to trigger someone in the heat of the moment to shoot someone.

I'm more inclined to think the shooter was an a-hole looking for trouble and took advantage of a law which effectively allowed him to murder someone. Saying this is a racist incident because of American history, rather than on the basis of evidence, desensitises people to when racist incidents do actually occur.

 

[danielanthony]

At the very least the shooter should stand trial - it's for a Judge and Jury to examine the facts and exhonorate or convict him.

Although this looks like murder to most sensible people, we're talking about America here where this sort of action is totally legal (as the police stated themselves).

 

[Minstadave]

Although this looks like murder to most sensible people, we're talking about America here where this sort of action is totally legal (as the police stated themselves).

Got to justify having all those guns somehow.

 

[dowie]

Once the gun was pulled there was clearly time to decide if he was at more risk. Did the other guy move towards him? No.
Therefore he wasn't at immediate risk and should be charged with killing someone.

thats the bit that bothers me about it, pulling the gun out should have stopped the whole thing, no longer a threat there, shouldn't have had to kill the guy

that could be an angle the state attorney could push for, that there was no longer a threat etc.. but I think the law is on the side of the shooter here, not everyone has the same reactions and it seems that if he had a genuine fear for his safety/life etc.. then he is in the clear.... there is also the fact that it is very easy to criticise in hindsight while watching this online whereas that brief moment after drawing the gun could pass very quickly from the perspective of the guy taken by surprise/shoved to the floor

You know the story, brad calls zach a douchebag in front of his ex gf, zach pushes brad onto the ground, brad kills zach with one shot and claims stand your ground. It's essentially the same as this. Where do you draw the line..

it isn't quite as simple as that AFAIK, someone else brought up this hypothetical re: provoking someone into hitting you then shooting them dead

they have laws in the US re: "fighting talk", AFAIK if the old guy had for example called the guy by the n-word* then been shoved as a result of that the assault could be justifiable and the old guy could well be in trouble instead, just as if he'd punched him first etc.. you don't get to claim self defence if you started the fight

obviously calling someone out over a disabled parking spot isn't "fighting talk" even if he is being a complete pain about it


*thats also a possible angle to push for if the private attorney the girlfriend has hired wants to try and screw him in a civil case, claim he used the n-word whether he actually did or not, try and find his Facebook profile and see if he's liked any Trump related groups (white, male, Florida gun owner - probably good odds he has) and no doubt within such groups you could search through all the posts and find some overt racism (just as you could find some anti semitism in labour groups Corbyn had liked in order to generate headlines)... ergo point out that he's a member of racist groups where members have said things like [insert racist post] etc..

 

[200sols]

If someone was shouting at the mother of my children, they'd be on the floor immediately.

Which is totally wrong, resorting to violence never ends well, add in guns and well, the video shows what happens.

 

[IronWarrior]

I can't believe how little some Americans value life, it's sickening.

Some would say, they value life more then anyone else so they carry guns to protect themselves against those who could take it.

 

[IronWarrior]

thats the bit that bothers me about it, pulling the gun out should have stopped the whole thing, no longer a threat there, shouldn't have had to kill the guy

but I think the law is on the side of the shooter here, not everyone has the same reactions and it seems that if he had a genuine fear for his safety/life etc.. then he is in the clear.... there is also the fact that it is very easy to criticise in hindsight while watching this online whereas that brief moment after drawing the gun could pass very quickly from the perspective of the guy taken by surprise/shoved to the floor

If that man wanted to attack that guy on the ground, he was close enough to go all stabby stab happy stab on that guy and one shot from a pistol doesn't really stop someone unless they really unlucky.

As you saw in the video, that guy got shot in the middle of his body, heart and lungs area and was still able to walk away and into the shop before finally falling.

It's not unusual for someone to be shot multiple times and still come at you.

The police are trained to understand the 21 feet rule or the (Tueller Drill), it shows that a attacker with a knife can cover 21 feet or (6.4m) in 1.5 seconds and these two was like 1 or 2m?

Likely this shooter who was a member of the NRA understands this.

but I think the law is on the side of the shooter here, not everyone has the same reactions and it seems that if he had a genuine fear for his safety/life etc.. then he is in the clear.... there is also the fact that it is very easy to criticise in hindsight while watching this online whereas that brief moment after drawing the gun could pass very quickly from the perspective of the guy taken by surprise/shoved to the floor

Totally agree!

I think taking it to court and a trial would serve justice.

 

[IronWarrior]

Ah well, I think there is a lesson learned here.

Don't be violent to people, keep your hands to yourself, mind your own business.

 

[Orionaut]

It's easy to say that he had clearly enough time watching it on youtube, but 3 seconds isn't that long when you get physically attacked, anything can happen in that time.

Once the decision has been made to do so, A Gun can be drawn, aimed and fired in less than 100mS.

This is why US Cops are a bit jumpy when suspects reach for their shorts. If they wait to actually see a weapon, it will be too late to respond to it.

Around half of all (So called) "Waistband shootings" do actually involve suspects that are armed and are in fact going for a weapon.

 

[Richard - London]

The guy attacked someone that was armed, what did he expect?