Star Trek: Picard

I absolutely agree that politics has always been in Star Trek but whilst I didn’t agree with much of what the Critical Drinker said he made a good point that historically the politics has been presented neutrally. Not so obviously partisan or preachy.
 
At no point did I think about politics while watching it. Some people just get triggered at everything, too many falling ice crystals these days. :)
 
The only politics I saw was briefly about the shift in mindset of the Federation. I think everyone else must have watched something else by mistake. If you don't think it's Star Trek then please go and watch whatever you think is and stop moaning.
 
PlacidCasual said:
I absolutely agree that politics has always been in Star Trek but whilst I didn’t agree with much of what the Critical Drinker said he made a good point that historically the politics has been presented neutrally. Not so obviously partisan or preachy.
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He went in really hard on this, was quite surprised, I struggle to disagree with a lot of what he said though.

That aside, I did really enjoy it and watching his breakdown of the episode, it hasn't changed that.
 
ST used to do politics a lot better than it does now, and i'm no Trekkie, but there'a glaring difference between the moral dilemmas of early Trek, and the nuanced presentation of politics and the lecturing of today.
 
I tried it last night but got bored after 10 mins and turned it off. Maybe I wasn't in the right mood and will try again.
 
I love the people suggesting that Picard being a man of incredibly strong principles whose moral stance is that he should help those in need no matter what is a new thing being presented to make political ground.

That has always been Picard.

Perhaps the more relevant question should be what kind of person you are to consider caring about others to be ultra left politics rather than just being a decent human being.
 
@bazzabear I agree that has always been Picard. I would suggest the Fox News-esque interviewer and World view is the more telling part that people feels un-Trekkie. In the past Picard would have done just as you suggest and lead by example without the culture war aspect.
 
bazzabear said:
I love the people suggesting that Picard being a man of incredibly strong principles whose moral stance is that he should help those in need no matter what is a new thing being presented to make political ground.

That has always been Picard.

Perhaps the more relevant question should be what kind of person you are to consider caring about others to be ultra left politics rather than just being a decent human being.
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I don't think that Picard would have left though. He would have kept battling to do the right thing from within Starfleet. All he did was go off and become a grumpy old hermit, rather like what they did to Luke Skywalker.

It's quite telling when you find out he's an admiral, and I was reminded of Kirk's words to Picard in Generations. "Well let me tell you something. Don't! Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference."

Starfleet takes a body blow, they step back, and Picard leaves because he can't get what he wants? He would stay and advocate for the moral viewpoint. It just seems to be yet another Kurtzman "dark Trek" trope he's learned from JJ Abrams.
 
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bazzabear said:
I love the people suggesting that Picard being a man of incredibly strong principles whose moral stance is that he should help those in need no matter what is a new thing being presented to make political ground.

That has always been Picard.

Perhaps the more relevant question should be what kind of person you are to consider caring about others to be ultra left politics rather than just being a decent human being.
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Indeed, those that used to love tng but think this new series is some wishy washy liberal assault on them should probably instead consider how much they have changed in the years since the show ended.

Only time you ever see Picard really lose his sense of right/wrong or perspective is when dealing with the Borg. Looking forward to seeing how that all plays out. Will his views on synths change when whatever Borg angle is at play comes into it?
 
SixTwoSix said:
He went in really hard on this, was quite surprised, I struggle to disagree with a lot of what he said though.

That aside, I did really enjoy it and watching his breakdown of the episode, it hasn't changed that.
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I think a lot of things go by when you're in the flow of the show and watching events unfold. Only if it's really bad and you get pulled out of the narrative then and there (I'm looking at you STD). When you go back and watch it through with a more analytical mind, you can see the flaws and bad dialogue (such as the conversation between Narek and Soji that is even terrible first time around).

Sometimes it takes someone like Critical Drinker or Nerdoritic to point out what was done really badly, and then you can neither unsee it nor argue that it wasn't done poorly.
 
Steampunk said:
I don't think that Picard would have left though. He would have kept battling to do the right thing from within Starfleet. All he did was go off and become a grumpy old hermit, rather like what they did to Luke Skywalker.
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Starfleet takes a body blow, they step back, and Picard leaves because he can't get what he wants? He would stay and advocate for the moral viewpoint. It just seems to be yet another Kurtzman "dark Trek" trope.
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Not sure - he'll usually carry out his duty even if he doesn't like it, like moving folks from now Cardassian worlds creating the Marquis. But Starfleet as he said, wasn't just wrong in not stepping up to help the Romulans. They were criminal. Sounded like he did everything he could.
From the interview they initially say no, he convinces them - builds the biggest rescue fleet ever which then gets wiped out. Sounds like he couldn't get them to shift after that.

To keep working for an organisation that wilfully stands by while millions/billions die wouldn't be his style. No longer the Starfleet he knows.

edit - I'm sure he does manage to still give some help, from outside Starfleet, hence the loyalty of the Romulans on his vineyard.
 
Geez! Guys, I wouldn't give them a second thought to be honest.
It says more about those types of people today, than it does about star trek, the picard show, or the picard character himself.

TNG had 24 (give or take) episodes a season * 7 = 168 episodes. How many have gone at lenght to complain about anything in those?

I think a lot of people are at pains to get noticed, and will do, or say anything to achieve that. The constantly offended brigade. You can find meaning in anything if you look hard enough.

They'll be the "ban pitbulls" brigade out soon.

Star Trek is pure escapism, and nobody is taking that away from me.
 
Steampunk said:
I don't think that Picard would have left though. He would have kept battling to do the right thing from within Starfleet. All he did was go off and become a grumpy old hermit, rather like what they did to Luke Skywalker.
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He says in the show though that he didn't recognise what Star Fleet turned in to. It is one thing to disagree with an order and fight for what's right but to disagree with everything Star Fleet do, with the direction they took - I don't think it is too far fetched the finding himself diametrically opposed to Star Fleet that he would resign in protest.

Washout said:
edit - I'm sure he does manage to still give some help, from outside Starfleet, hence the loyalty of the Romulans on his vineyard.
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Potentially, from memory, one of them says something along the lines of not forgetting what he did for them. Though it isn't clear if the 'them' was them personally or all Romulans. Either way, it would still seem to suggest he continue to try to help.
 
PlacidCasual said:
@bazzabear I agree that has always been Picard. I would suggest the Fox News-esque interviewer and World view is the more telling part that people feels un-Trekkie. In the past Picard would have done just as you suggest and lead by example without the culture war aspect.
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Yeah, that's maybe a fair point. :)

But I think it makes sense as a character progression. He is very bitter to have been let down by the organisation which he thought shared his morals. And there's an implication that he left because there was something he could actively do to help - but only from outside starfleet. Having done what he was able, that's when he descended into the bitter hermit.

It certainly didn't seem in any way jarring to me.
 
TheOracle said:
Geez! Guys, I wouldn't give them a second thought to be honest.
It says more about those types of people today, than it does about star trek, the picard show, or the picard character himself.

TNG had 24 (give or take) episodes a season * 7 = 168 episodes. How many have gone at lenght to complain about anything in those?
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Me for one lol.

Most of series 1 and 2 was dross. Only got good during season 3 and 4. Series 5-7 was a steady decline which peaked with the episode "Masks".
 
Got to agree, i think most folk are seemingly overlooking some of the quite appalling first and second season of TNG. Help ma bob they had some stinkers.

TNG didnt get really going until the 3rd season, ok it had some great episodes in the first two as well but more often than not it was quite honestly bad. But then they did a shed load of them as well so eventually most of the content was excellent drowned the earlier rubbish.

Disco gets a bad rep for some crap in its first season which is justified to some extent but it gets better in the second as it gets more mature, just like TNG. Heck Ds9 was also paint drying boring for the first season or so as well.
Let them get a bit of breathing room.
 
Isn’t comparing late 80s to the teens a bit unfair. There have been so many improvements in storytelling but also the commercial and audience acceptance window has changed.

Back then they wanted 5+ seasons of 20+ episodes to meet the syndication model. Also the requirement for narrative arc was utterly absent because of the syndication model.

I agree that much of TNG has aged badly but that’s not how I felt at the time. What will modern TV look like through 30 year hindsight?
 
sideways14a said:
Disco gets a bad rep for some crap in its first season which is justified to some extent but it gets better in the second as it gets more mature, just like TNG.
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STD gets a bad rep because the writing has pretty consistently been bad. Across both seasons so far. Logic holes, continuity issues, leaden dialogue, plot twists telegraphed a mile off and then delivered with all the subtlety of a gold brick to the face...

Oh, and on the "new Trek is too SJW!!!" or "Trek shouldn't be political!!!" points that certain folks on t'internet are shouting about:

 
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