Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

Problem is, they don't see it that she's doing a bad job. The films have raked in millions and millions. They are successful in Disney's eyes, so will keep cranking out the dross.

But I honestly think even Joe pleb is starting to cotton on that the films aren't actually any good. I can really see the next one bombing if it is no better than last Jedi.

What makes me laugh is all the reviews that proclaimed last Jedi as the best star wars film ever when it came out. What were they smoking??
 
Jokester said:
The $$$ that Disney paid them presumably.
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I always get slightly annoyed at comments like this and I've seen them fired off a lot in threads and discussion pages like this.

You do realise that if that critic or reviewer is ever proven to have accepted a bribe from a studio then their career is OVER? There's no recovering from something like that, especially these days. What amount of money would Disney have to pay these people in order to buy them out? Jim Sterling said that it would have to be ATLEAST what he'd be making in the industry for the rest of his life PLUS an exceptionally large sum of money to pay on top. Even then he stated that any reviewer/critic who's gotten to a position of notoriety couldn't possibly carry on in that position purely on moral grounds.

I just think it's quite a disrespectful thing to dismiss someone's opinion and often their entire career on a hunch that they may have been paid of based on NO evidence whatsoever, other then the fact that they liked or disliked something that you didn't.
 
IvanDobskey said:
What makes me laugh is all the reviews that proclaimed last Jedi as the best star wars film ever when it came out. What were they smoking??
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the prequels got mostly very good reviews when they came out - i think many critics, like everybody else, get blinded by the spectacle at first. Its only after time has passed that they change their tune and say 'yeah it was crap'.
 
DrToffnar said:
I always get slightly annoyed at comments like this and I've seen them fired off a lot in threads and discussion pages like this.

You do realise that if that critic or reviewer is ever proven to have accepted a bribe from a studio then their career is OVER? There's no recovering from something like that, especially these days. What amount of money would Disney have to pay these people in order to buy them out? Jim Sterling said that it would have to be ATLEAST what he'd be making in the industry for the rest of his life PLUS an exceptionally large sum of money to pay on top. Even then he stated that any reviewer/critic who's gotten to a position of notoriety couldn't possibly carry on in that position purely on moral grounds.

I just think it's quite a disrespectful thing to dismiss someone's opinion and often their entire career on a hunch that they may have been paid of based on NO evidence whatsoever, other then the fact that they liked or disliked something that you didn't.
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It’s fundamentally a bad film, not just as a Star Wars film but as a film in general. So yes, any serious professional reviewer stating this is the best Star Wars film I would seriously question their competence.
 
I still haven't seen this again since my midnight release showing and I'm not sure I ever will. And I'm a life long fan that paid to see TFA twice at cinema, at least it felt star warsy. Still haven't got round to seeing Solo but I'm sure I will. Ep9 will still be a huge box office success as everyone (or at least 99.5%) will still see it regardless of how they felt about TLJ.
 
Jokester said:
It’s fundamentally a bad film, not just as a Star Wars film but as a film in general. So yes, any serious professional reviewer stating this is the best Star Wars film I would seriously question their competence.
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This

It's a fundamentally bad film on every level. How can any critic seriously call it the best star wars film ever?

I can only assume they were paid off, or at least have some sort of arrangement going with certain film companies. Either that or they are just horribly bad at their jobs.
 
IvanDobskey said:
But I honestly think even Joe pleb is starting to cotton on that the films aren't actually any good. I can really see the next one bombing if it is no better than last Jedi.

What makes me laugh is all the reviews that proclaimed last Jedi as the best star wars film ever when it came out. What were they smoking??
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Yeah the last one I think most viewers have realised even those who aren't particular discriminating and just want to be entertained.

I was following the reviews on Amazon a bit around the time the digital version was listed and then released as I was on the fence about watching it having heard bad things - the ratings were overwhelmingly dire at first - barely any above 3 stars - most 1-2 and I'm talking about more people actually bothering to rate the movie than normally happens - 100s and 100s of negative comments and reviews - suddenly there was a massive pump of 5 star reviews plainly shills and for awhile after I had watched it it wouldn't even let you rate it less than 4 stars or it popped up with a message about "can't accept your rating due to abnormal patterns detected". On Amazon I'd say a considerable number of the the 4-5 star reviews/rating aren't genuine viewers.

Even traditionally bad movies don't have the numbers and ratios of 1 star ratings that still persists even after someone has obviously done a PR campaign on the ratings.
 
Jokester said:
It’s fundamentally a bad film, not just as a Star Wars film but as a film in general. So yes, any serious professional reviewer stating this is the best Star Wars film I would seriously question their competence.
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Questioning there competence is fine (within reason), but questioning the principles of someone in a job where subjective opinion means EVERYTHING to them, their profession and their audience without any evidence is just a bit meh.
 
DrToffnar said:
Questioning there competence is fine (within reason), but questioning the principles of someone in a job where subjective opinion means EVERYTHING to them, their profession and their audience without any evidence is just a bit meh.
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Well you have to wonder how professional critics rated so highly and the fans didn't. Remember those early ecstatic tweets from the first showings before the public got to see it?

Maybe a lot of people wanted to like it on first viewing, maybe they got caught up in the expectations of the first Star Wars for years, maybe there was a lot of virtue signalling. It's not difficult to see that a lot of critics might be wary of upsetting Disney, who can be very tough if they feel slighted. No one wants to be blacklisted by a company that puts out so many films and owns so much IP especially when Disney's marketing expectations are well known. We've already had Lucasfilm people blame misogyny/racism if anyone didn't like their movies.

I don't think there's money being passed around in brown envelopes, but there's a lot of implied pressure on reviewers to like the films they are supposed to like, or else get labelled as someone bad. It's only a short step from there to being called out as a target and then "public demand" gets rid of you like they did with James Gunn.
 
Steampunk said:
Well you have to wonder how professional critics rated so highly and the fans didn't. Remember those early ecstatic tweets from the first showings before the public got to see it?

Maybe a lot of people wanted to like it on first viewing, maybe they got caught up in the expectations of the first Star Wars for years, maybe there was a lot of virtue signalling. It's not difficult to see that a lot of critics might be wary of upsetting Disney, who can be very tough if they feel slighted. No one wants to be blacklisted by a company that puts out so many films and owns so much IP especially when Disney's marketing expectations are well known. We've already had Lucasfilm people blame misogyny/racism if anyone didn't like their movies.

I don't think there's money being passed around in brown envelopes, but there's a lot of implied pressure on reviewers to like the films they are supposed to like, or else get labelled as someone bad. It's only a short step from there to being called out as a target and then "public demand" gets rid of you like they did with James Gunn.
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I’m fairly sure people like Kelly Marie Tran would disagree with you there. The type of engagement she got off the back of the film can only be described as misogyny and racism. I am fairly sure Daisy Ridley got fairly similar treatment. Some of the comments made in this very thread about Laura Dern’s caracter were not exactly PC.

That being said your wider point about critics being potentially blacklisted for giving a negative review is very relevant. 3 major studios now control pretty much ass of the big budget movies these days and getting black listed by one would be a major blow to their livelihoods. The industry is very insular, being blacklisted by one you probably will be blacklisted by them all. Just look at the sorts of films that win oscars, they don’t tend to be films that are highly rated by the wider public. Most people have never seen them!

The reviews for a film are a huge part of its marketing, negative reviews would really hamper its sales.
 
DrToffnar said:
I always get slightly annoyed at comments like this and I've seen them fired off a lot in threads and discussion pages like this.

You do realise that if that critic or reviewer is ever proven to have accepted a bribe from a studio then their career is OVER? There's no recovering from something like that, especially these days. What amount of money would Disney have to pay these people in order to buy them out? Jim Sterling said that it would have to be ATLEAST what he'd be making in the industry for the rest of his life PLUS an exceptionally large sum of money to pay on top. Even then he stated that any reviewer/critic who's gotten to a position of notoriety couldn't possibly carry on in that position purely on moral grounds.

I just think it's quite a disrespectful thing to dismiss someone's opinion and often their entire career on a hunch that they may have been paid of based on NO evidence whatsoever, other then the fact that they liked or disliked something that you didn't.
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And yet it's been going on for years. Advertising gets withdrawn for bad reviews, no more free tickets to see films, no more free merch, etc. I see no reason to trust the review of someone who is going to see a film as a guest of the company.

Off the top of my head, Zzap! 64 magazine years ago were threatened with a withdrawal of advertising for a bad review.

Jeremy Clarkson was banned from test driving Toyotas for describing the Corolla as dull.

Then there's the website Pretend Race Cars. It was famous for trashing race sims. The guy who ran it suddenly received 'sponsorship' to run a car in a real life series from Slightly mad Studios (Pcars2), a company who he'd been particularly harsh against. Eventually he became an 'employee' of SMS. Unsurprisingly all the trashing stopped for them and they were getting praise, whilst other companies where still getting their products trashed. The backlash from his readership was so much he ended up closing the website, but I guess he made a buck or two out of it.

Then you've got all the paid reviews that appear on Amazon for example. A couple of years ago, a family member of mine was literally paid to 'review' products that he'd not even used.

There's big pressure / influence out there to make sure reviewers say the right things I'm afraid.
 
How can you compare a professional film critic to somebody who buys a product on Amazon and then gets an email from the company that says "You can have that for free if you give us a good review"

Their reputation as impartial is far more important to them.
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They don't get "free tickets" to see films. Either a film is screened for critics or it isnt. Generally the main reason it's not screened for critics is because it's awful and the studio knows it.
 
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Well I finally got around to rewatching TLJ with the wife watching it for first time she was underwhelmed but it’s not really her thing with a few chuckles along the way. For me it was just a bit sad I didn’t think it was very good after the first watch but watching it the second time after watching a few reviews most prominently the Roz rant and the Plinkett review just opened my eyes to the abundant flaws. In contrast I rewatched Avengers Assemble on Sky the other afternoon and still loved it after so many rewatches.

It really has killed the new main sequence Star Wars films for me.
 
Watched Solo today and really reinforced how bad TLJ is for me - albeit it has some issues of its own but I really felt like the director "got" the audience with Solo. Aside from the droid which I kind of get the feeling like the director didn't have a free hand over.
 
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