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Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Music, Box Office, TV & Books' started by opstrat, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Gerard

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,488

    Location: Ireland


    Obviously Luke is going to be part of the next movie, and Fisher is also going to from what i've read through use of unused footage. But Luke is pretty much a special case being a Jedi and obviously destined to be a "force ghost". But the fact remains they didn't need to kill the characters off onscreen, there was other ways they could have ended their involvement with the series without resorting to a half baked on screen death.
     
  2. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 10,842

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Star wars is all about killing off the old guard. Is there even a movie in the main line where they don't do that?

    As for half baked deaths.... Why even did yoda die?
     
  3. Gerard

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,488

    Location: Ireland


    Probably because he was what, 900 years old or somewhere around that? Plus back then they were extremely limited as to what they could do with puppets as opposed to cg versions today.
     
  4. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,938

    Would you really be satisfied with them being written out? I mean really come on lets be realistic here.

    Writing Han Solo out would have almost certainly meant something like him 'abandoning the cause' again and would satisfy exactly zero people. Being killed off by his own son at least has some meaning to the story line and progression of the franchise.

    Let's be honest about it, just like the prequels the new films were not ever going to satisfy 'fans', its just not possible.
     
  5. Gerard

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,488

    Location: Ireland


    Solo would either have to be killed off or written out as he was allegedly a hard sell to get into TFA in the first place. As for the fan thing i'll watch them when they're on but not like i own dvd's or box sets of them. It's just hard not to smell a turd when it's leaking out on screen.
     
  6. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 5,951

    We should have had another Luke Skywalker film - with Sebastian Stan (Winter Soldier/Bucky Barnes):

    [​IMG]

    Let's face it, the new characters are ****, and they have none of the charisma of the old ones. K-2SO is probably the only new one that wasn't ruined by bad writing. Even the high point of the best film (Rogue One) was Darth Vader's cameo rampage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  7. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,169

    Tbh, we are at a point where making KoTOR into movies wouldn't be THAT bad. :)
     
  8. uncle_rufus

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 14, 2011

    Posts: 3,600

    I think the new characters are mostly fine... the problem is more with the previously mentioned "every character must make quips and jokes constantly" approach to the writing... and it feels like the charisma is missing because of too much meddling from Disney, as if in a New Hope we had:

    "So... what do you think of her Han?"

    "CUT!!! Can we look at this please guys? I don't think it will play well with the female demographic if we have our main character objectifying women like this, let's drop these lines out... perhaps instead Luke and Han can make a topical joke that nods towards liberal ideas about veganism? And while we're here there's also a scene later on where Luke and Leia kiss - let's drop that as well; might be too offensive towards LGBT community and feel like we're stereotyping... perhaps instead we can have a funny moment where Luke tries to practice with his lightsaber like he did earlier, but the little floaty ball thingy decides to best him by flying forward and bumping into his head - that'll be really funny for the kids"
     
  9. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

    Posts: 4,202

    Location: Stoke & Saudi

    The old guard never had to die, they could have had a "happy ever after" ending where they pass the torch and retire into the sunset etc.
     
  10. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,938

    Wouldn’t that have led to thousands of vocal fans screaming ‘where’s Luke and Han?’ ‘Why did they leave when there is evil to fight?’

    That scenario only works where the story ends and not the current scenario where the saga continues.

    If they just rode off into the sunset you’d have the same arguments about Luke that we’ve had on this film about it being out of character.
     
  11. checjb

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,179

    Location: Royston, Herts

    The death of Han and Luke just fits into the Disney standard of killing off parents, if you assume that both are father figures. Even Mary Poppins Returns had to bring in the 'dead parent' trope. It's as well established as Tom Cruise running & riding a motorbike without a helmet in every one of his films.
     
  12. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,693

    If the films had been better no one would have cared about Han or Luke dieing, they are entirely reasonable plot devices. It's just the new films are an empty shell built on a 40 year old IP. JJ Abrams is going to deserve the combined Frankenstien-Lazarus award to revive this corpse, which will still sell a $1Billion.
     
  13. aardvark

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 2, 2005

    Posts: 7,705

    Location: leeds

    exactly - TFAwas a reasonable film and i liked the new characters. Sure it had a lot of problems but it was an ultra safe take on star wars and after the prequels i'm not surprised that they did that.
    TLJ needed to expand on that but all it did was throw TFA and the rest of starwars under a bus.
    The brand is damaged now and i honestly don't think they can recover.

    Rogue one was 'ok' and i haven't even bothered to watch solo.
    I used to think i was a big starwars fan but now i think i'm just a fan of good movies - the majority of starwars films are now crap.
     
  14. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 61,148

    Yeah TFA as someone noted a page back or so depended heavily on the next movie - the potential was there for TLJ to build on it instead TLJ undid anything good about the movie.

    I don't think the brand is irreparably damaged though - if they came out tomorrow and said forget about TLJ/it isn't canon and released a decent movie as a replacement I think most fans would forget and move on.

    Solo has a lot going for it to be fair - some stuff really needed more work or just removing but probably 75% of the movie I think actually gets the audience - probably suffers a bit from time constraints after directors being fired and a bit of meddling.
     
  15. SixTwoSix

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 14, 2007

    Posts: 9,277

    Location: Rugby

    Solo at least felt like a proper star wars universe movie in style and storytelling...not a great movie but nowhere near as poor as I was expecting after TLJ.
     
  16. checjb

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,179

    Location: Royston, Herts

    Seriously, I would LOVE that. Just release a press statement saying that TLJ is now part of the Legends continuity and then make the film that should have followed TFA. I might even watch that at the cinema. As it stands, I won't want Ep 9 in any way that requires me to pay extra for it (i.e. only if it's on Amazon or Netflix - both of which are unlikely with Disney launching their own streaming service). I know that's not going to matter to Disney but I doubt I'm alone.
     
  17. aardvark

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 2, 2005

    Posts: 7,705

    Location: leeds

    not very likely to happen though is it?
    i also don't have much faith in jj fixing it - he's a 'fine' director and is good at setting up stories and very poor at finishing them in a satisfactory way.
     
  18. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

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    If it was JUST a bad movie and nothing else I'd agree, but I think the "post-TLJ" vitriol from Lucasfilm and their employees aimed at fans who vocally disliked the film has burnt those bridges with far more fans than they realise and I think that Ep9 flopping (my bet is <$900M worldwide) will be when Lucasfilm/Disney gets to see just how badly they've ruined the franchise because of one bad movie (recoverable) and the reaction against the fans afterwards (killer blow).

    Personally as a mid 40's SW fan I won't be seeing Ep9. I loved the "feeling" of Ep7 being back with the original people but realised that, despite that "wow, it's back" feeling the film itself had lots of issues which I thought could hopefully be brought around by a good Ep8 to build on but Ep8 killed the Ep7-9 trilogy for me, and the reaction of Lucasfilm film afterwards made me wonder why would I support a studio which called people like myself (who didn't like the film) sexist, racist, misogynist etc because we thought the film was badly written?

    At least I still have the OT to reminisce about.
     
  19. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,938

    Really? There is a lot of fair criticism of this film but.....

    A) those comments were clearly not aimed at you or people who just 'didn't like the film'

    B) they were quite rightly aimed at the people who made it their mission to harass Kelly Marie Tran, Laura Dean and Daisy Ridley until they left the internet and them claim victory when they closed their social media accounts. Those people were quite accurately described as sexist, racist and misogynist their behaviour is completely unacceptable. It is fair to say the only female actor that didn't get inundated with abuse after the release of this film was Carrie Fisher.

    I am happy to debate bad writing and production, this film clearly had issues which I have pointed out myself but this is a bit far don't you think?
     
  20. Meddling-Monk

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2013

    Posts: 462

    No one ever learns. First is was Bioware with their ME3 ending debacle, which was more about how they handled it rather than the actual ending (since "artistically" it could be argued it was the only way to go, but their approach to fans was not how to go about it). Then came Lucasfilm and Last Jedi. Doctor Who hasn't reached that level, so pluses to them, but I doubt it'll take long.

    They used those terms on everyone. They didn't care they put valid criticism into the mix too for using this attitude and approach. I'm fairly certain someone better at looking up data can find all the necessary info to show that this point might have been the intention they were going for, but it certainly wasn't the result.

    Sure, aiming it at only that lot of ingrates, sure.

    But everyone else with valid concerns? Which they HAVE done? And then their followers/disciples following suit and attacking everyone else with valid concerns and trying to silence them for not worshipiing the crap that they just poopped out? Sorry, but no. It doesn't matter what you "originally intended", since you can easily be lying to save your own skin (which seems to be the case). But the actual actions that count, just like how you deal with any normal relationship with people. And they had 12 months to try and do something about that. But instead they just stuck their heads into the sand and began to double down on burning more bridges and using a scorched earth policy, hoping that it will be the end of it. But we all know where the franchise is now don't we?

    What was once the unassailable movie of ANY year, where everyone moved their movies out of the way because they knew they would get slaughtered. Is now being taken on by films, whilst good, that really would never had dared to even get anywhere close to a Star Wars film release. Much less now competing on their time tables. The only way this could have happened was near impossible. But somehow it has been done.