Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

I disagree. I’m exceptionally tired of the “righteous heroes win over evil baddies (led by a big mega baddie) against impossible odds in legendary style” formula. I’m really glad it went against that in several aspects:

- Film dabbled with good and bad on both sides, for the first time in the main canon (although it came up also in Rogue One)

- The casino side quest being slapped down as futile. This really bugs some people for some reason... Again, I like it.

- The legendary skyWalker was a damp squib

- The big baddie got a surprising instadeath

- Intriguing moments with Ray and Kylo... a genuine moment of uncertainty as to whether Ray would join forces with Kylo.

- Rebel forces shown to be extremely vulnerable for the first time since TESB.

I LIKED that there were not formulaic / clever ‘plot twists’. It was all the over the place and just a bit less storybook and, you know... more ‘real’. The film just ‘was’. And it was really refreshing as a result.

That is not to say that there aren’t fair criticisms!

This is where my biggest complaints are and this lets me explain it better than earlier attempts - the film didn't really dabble with good and bad on both sides - there was little structure to it, minimal attempt, some exceptions aside, to develop characters upto the kind of motivations that would explain it and often inconsistency where it wanted to go with that from one scene to another.

The legendary Skywalker being a damp squib doesn't really make much sense it doesn't fit the character development and pretty much the core of what Starwars is about. Sure not being the answer is believable but where they went with it and how it was handled wasn't.

That it was all over the place wasn't in any kind of organic or realworld way - even with some roughness and things not working out in a polished Hollywood way you still need the threads the join things together - the all over the place largely came from the director cribbing from various scenes from other movies and ramming them into the movie using the characters that best fit.

You are doing an awful lot of retconning what was really a mishmash of movie ideas rammed into the Starwars universe with little real care.

EDIT: The bigger problem though is that by and large the Starwars fanbase doesn't want their expectations subverted atleast not in this way regardless of how well it was or wasn't done so it is a massive misunderstanding of its audience even if a good film in its own right (which it isn't).
 
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i have no problem with doing things different and subverting expectations but if you do that you need to make it interesting and give us something in its place.
TLJ did away with everything set up in TFA but forgot to give us anything else (and it radically changed established characters and facts previously established in the universe) - its a dead end at the moment.

maybe JJ can pull something out of the bag, but i doubt it - they didn't seem to have any kind of plan for this new trilogy, which is baffling considering the money involved.
 
i have no problem with doing things different and subverting expectations but if you do that you need to make it interesting and give us something in its place.

Same - I have no investment in the Starwars universe itself I just liked the original 3 movies for the escapism - if a new director took it an interesting direction it wouldn't bother me. But the fact is TLJ lost most if not all of its core audience and that is ultimately who you are making these movies for.
 
I think Disney has "lost" this generation of kids to the Marvel movies so, while you may have seen Rey or Kylo dressed up kids or a kids playing with the New toys after TFA came out, since TLJ came out it's taken a massive tumble (a 47% decrease in Sales) and even at it's height it was still nowhere near the levels that the OT characters had. I also think that Disney are extremely thankful that Marvel is picking up the slack left by the lower than expected sales figures for Star Wars kids stuff recently.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-making-strategic-mistake-with-last-jedi-toys

https://www.wallstreethedge.com/hasbro-star-wars-toys-low-sales/213521/

https://fortune.com/2018/01/18/with-star-wars-toys-the-force-is-strong-but-retail-sales-arent/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/luketh...-toys-selling-as-well-this-year/#65bc335c54e5
 
I think Disney has "lost" this generation of kids to the Marvel movies so, while you may have seen Rey or Kylo dressed up kids or a kids playing with the New toys after TFA came out, since TLJ came out it's taken a massive tumble (a 47% decrease in Sales) and even at it's height it was still nowhere near the levels that the OT characters had. I also think that Disney are extremely thankful that Marvel is picking up the slack left by the lower than expected sales figures for Star Wars kids stuff recently.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-making-strategic-mistake-with-last-jedi-toys

https://www.wallstreethedge.com/hasbro-star-wars-toys-low-sales/213521/

https://fortune.com/2018/01/18/with-star-wars-toys-the-force-is-strong-but-retail-sales-arent/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/luketh...-toys-selling-as-well-this-year/#65bc335c54e5

I think if anything this kind of stuff, maybe a little more larger than life than the original characters, is in vogue with the latest generation and they aren't married to Marvel, etc. infact if anything they are more fickle jumping from fad to fad than previous generations. The mistakes are a lot in timing, etc. as pointed out in those links.

Characters like Rey actually made a fair impact - lots of role play, makeup, etc. influenced by the character but I think the way the character was handled in TLJ also took some of the shine off it instead of building on it as they could have done - she was suddenly much less of the heroine, etc. kids were looking upto/for.
 
@tracertong can you summarise please?

I simply can't stand Mr H aka Mr leap on any unsubstantiated news to bloat my channel and get them views. I used to subscribe to him but he's become overly sketchy on his reports recently.
 
Watching all these films in order again. It all goes well until this one. It really is garbage. I usually switch off to films, but every few minutes one can’t help but think ‘that doesn’t make sense’. I don’t dislike many people on the world, but rian Johnson is a self indulgent disgrace of a person.
 
Watching all these films in order again. It all goes well until this one. It really is garbage. I usually switch off to films, but every few minutes one can’t help but think ‘that doesn’t make sense’. I don’t dislike many people on the world, but rian Johnson is a self indulgent disgrace of a person.
I've recently been doing the same and finished episode VII last week. After powering through the first 7 I've been putting off watching the next one :p
 
Red Letter Media had a far more interesting take on Palpatine, they reckoned that the Palpatine on the planet was the original and was ancient and the one you seen in the other movies was a clone of him sent out to take control of things as the original was confined to the planet due to being kept alive artificially.

Certainly a lot better than the half assed crap that they came up with in the movie that seemed cobbled together after 5 mins thought. It was never explained how he survived at all they just used the spiel about "dark side having unnatural abilities" that he spouted in episode 3.

ALSO....if the whole gimmick behind luring Rey to the planet was for her to kill him so his spirit could take her over...why didn't that happen anyway? She still kills him regardless and he didn't take over her because?????

Could drive a death star through some of the **** in this movie, one of the best was the Star Destroyers being conveniently parked in an atmosphere that meant they couldn't use their shields (because..reasons), and they need a beacon to follow because apparently nobody on them knows the direction of UP. Looking out a window to go in the direction opposite the ground was never a thought seemingly. :rolleyes: Was like someone with either severe brain damage or a severe cocaine dependency came up with most of the crap in this movie.


Also a lot of waffle online over the last while about Disney potentially "rebooting" the final trilogy and trying again.
 
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Red Letter Media

Love these guys, also MauLer lays waste to the films in ways that are delicious to behold.

Also a lot of waffle online over the last while about Disney potentially "rebooting" the final trilogy and trying again.

Sadly Kathleen Kennedy has had her contract renewed so i doubt she would let anyone touch her 'work of genius' trilogy.
 
I mean it seems ludicrious that they'd throw it all away to do that. But then we did just have a trilogy that little new and by the time the opening scrawl of the first film had finished had reset the galaxy back to the state it was in at the start of a new hope with some names changed around, so while an outright reboot wouldn't happen I could certainly see a new film set beyond the ones we just had where the empire first order <insert evil name here> have taken back over and a small band of our plucky heroes in the rebellion, resistance <insert heroic name here> have to defeat them.
 
Love these guys, also MauLer lays waste to the films in ways that are delicious to behold.
Sadly Kathleen Kennedy has had her contract renewed so i doubt she would let anyone touch her 'work of genius' trilogy.

has this been renewed, I knew it was due to expire in 2021, I had not heard of it being renewed, I was certain this would not happen, was it recent?
 
I’m still trying to get through this since my last post :p - the only scene I like is that with yoda. Don’t get me started on the casino scene or how Luke seems to have taken on a new persona.
 
Even though I didn't dislike the Prequels (I enjoyed them for what they were as a visual spectacle) I still find that I'd only actively choose to watch re-runs of the OT and not the Prequels or Sequels. Maybe my OT based childhood plays a big factor, rather than anything about the quality of later films themselves, but I find myself to be just a little luke-warm to those later films.
 
I'll go as far as saying, in movie terms, the biggest disappointment of my movie life.

Indeed. Rise of skywalker wasn’t much better. So much wasted potential. ‘They fly now’ - cringe. Palpatine’s somehow returned - cringe. To be fair the last Jedi didn’t leave much to work with.

Thrawn trilogy are the sequels

Indeed. Amazing trilogy and one that actually makes sense.
 
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