Steam prices! Grey key sites! and the I love/hate developers thread - Enter if you dare!

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Personally I cannot afford £40 for a single game, but at the same time I like supporting developers, so I don't see how the grey market is a bad idea. I just thought they were bought in economies where they will be cheaper and sold internationally?

I think people should get off their high horse and realise not everyone can afford £40 for a game that once bought, is tied to your personal account. Did these same people trade games in when they were younger? how is that any different from buying a key I will never know.

I purchase from the grey market, not because I don't support developers, it's because It's what I can afford.
 
FoxEye said:
Gamers these days expect high res textures with all the trimmings, amazingly detailed models. Individually modelled blades of grass and hair follicles.
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Most games ship with awful quality textures and then modders sort them out for free. The vanishing of Ethan Carter looked amazing and didnt cost £40 at launch.

I'd imagine their massive marketing campaigns and expensive voice actors will contribute to a lot of that high game price imo. I'm with Jono8 in not wanting to contribute toward that.
 
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Playing Devils advocate a little - I wouldn't say *most* games ship with awful textures.

I definitely agree that a huge portion of many AAA titles are marketing budgets. Much like movies.
 
Sinny said:
I think people should get off their high horse and realise not everyone can afford £40 for a game that once bought, is tied to your personal account. Did these same people trade games in when they were younger? how is that any different from buying a key I will never know..
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We do realise. The grey market probably isn't causing loss of revenue from all buyers.

But it most likely /does/ cause loss of revenue from those people who previously were prepared to buy games at release.

Before the grey market, 50% discount on release was not available. Naturally that does not mean that everybody therefore paid RRP. Of course, some waitied for price drops.

But some /did/ pay the Day1 RRP price. Only now the grey market means Day1 buyers can get 50% off.

We are asserting - without any real proof - that the likely outcome of Day1 purchasers having this 50% discount is causing a dip in revenue.
 
Well morals, by definition, are not facts that can be proved or disproved :) Nor are they cast in iron, at birth, never to change.

Personally I do not think it is for the buyer to pay what he feels fit, when he feels fit, or to feel entitled to take without full due recompense to the creator/author. But my younger self did not always feel this way ;) Indeed as a student I routinely pirated many things, including games.

So I well know that attitudes - and morals - can change over time.

But today - more than at any point I have seen in my life - we have a strange hierarchy where the consumer feels he is king, entitled to whatever he wants, and feels that the creators of digital works of art are somehow in his debt.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
If publishers dislike grey market sites, why do they keep selling codes to them (or their suppliers)?
It can't be hard to keep track of who you sell your codes to and who is then selling them surely?
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The answer to that is "Why do they charge less in India, China, Brazil and Russia?"

As has been said, many keys sold on the grey market are ripped from boxed, retail copies on sale in those countries. Some are region locked and some aren't.
 
^ But i still fail to see what is wrong with buying something at a low price in one country and selling it to make a profit in another. It is called capitalism and whether you like it or not, that is what is going on at some point with 99% of the goods you all buy.

I honestly fail to see why people are so up in arms about it :confused:
 
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FoxEye said:
The answer to that is "Why do they charge less in India, China, Brazil and Russia?"

As has been said, many keys sold on the grey market are ripped from boxed, retail copies on sale in those countries. Some are region locked and some aren't.
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But if you know what they key is and who you sold it to and then find it sold on G2A you can figure out who sold the code to G2A.

If I sold you a bunch of codes starting with a '1', FrenchTart a bunch starting with '2' and Jono8 a bunch beginning with 'A' then found a load of keys on G2A starting with '2' I could figure out who sold them. Next time I don't sell them to FrenchTart...

Yes this is over simplified, but I'm sure they can keep track.

Also, say they sold 2.5m codes to Russia/Ukraine and 5m to Europe. Why is it a problem if they sell 2.4m Russian/Ukrainian codes and 2.4m European codes? Did they not want to sell the Russian codes? If not, why did they make them?
Yeah, maybe they were hoping they'd also sell 4.8m European codes, but maybe the game was just rubbish or unpopular. If your studio goes under because of this maybe your business model was flawed.

They could also reduce the difference in price between the different regions. I thin a lot of people would stop buying from grey markets if the price difference was £5 or so.
Maybe they'd lose sales in Russia/Ukraine, but if you assume that you should assume they'll gain some in Europe too with the cheaper prices. In fact you might lose quite a few sales in Russia because people wouldn't buy the grey market keys as they'd be buying the European ones, for slightly more.
 
FoxEye said:
Well morals, by definition, are not facts that can be proved or disproved :) Nor are they cast in iron, at birth, never to change.

Personally I do not think it is for the buyer to pay what he feels fit, when he feels fit, or to feel entitled to take without full due recompense to the creator/author. But my younger self did not always feel this way ;) Indeed as a student I routinely pirated many things, including games.

So I well know that attitudes - and morals - can change over time.

But today - more than at any point I have seen in my life - we have a strange hierarchy where the consumer feels he is king, entitled to whatever he wants, and feels that the creators of digital works of art are somehow in his debt.
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Again with the winking. It doesn't make you look clever you know.

Morals are indeed often ephemeral concepts and change over time. Your sideways attempt to suggest that your morals are borne of you being older than those that have expressed a different moral code to yourself do you as many favours as the ;) smilies.

Whatever your view of this particular subject, the idea that the buyer of any product or service should not be able to choose how much they pay is utterly ridiculous. Yes, the seller may refuse to sell at such a price, and in that case the buyer doesn't get to buy the product...but that isn't what is happening. The reason a buyer can get away with it might be down to a loophole that is arguably legally dodgy (I'm not saying it is or it isn't) but the situation is completely under the control of the seller. They can close whatever loophole exists and reduce the options down to "this price I'm happy with or no product". Until they do so, judging consumers for attempting to maximise the return on the cash they spend (just like any company, including game development and publish companies) is utterly indefensible.

I hesitate to bring this up as I don't want you to simply focus on this last bit but all of this from someone that was happy to purchase a grey-market cd key originally bundled with a graphics card (and hence intended only for the original purchaser of said graphics card) makes it all even more ridiculous. The hypocrisy is just...baffling.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
But if you know what they key is and who you sold it to and then find it sold on G2A you can figure out who sold the code to G2A.

If I sold you a bunch of codes starting with a '1', FrenchTart a bunch starting with '2' and Jono8 a bunch beginning with 'A' then found a load of keys on G2A starting with '2' I could figure out who sold them. Next time I don't sell them to FrenchTart...

Yes this is over simplified, but I'm sure they can keep track.

Also, say they sold 2.5m codes to Russia/Ukraine and 5m to Europe. Why is it a problem if they sell 2.4m Russian/Ukrainian codes and 2.4m European codes? Did they not want to sell the Russian codes? If not, why did they make them?
Yeah, maybe they were hoping they'd also sell 4.8m European codes, but maybe the game was just rubbish or unpopular. If your studio goes under because of this maybe your business model was flawed.

They could also reduce the difference in price between the different regions. I thin a lot of people would stop buying from grey markets if the price difference was £5 or so.
Maybe they'd lose sales in Russia/Ukraine, but if you assume that you should assume they'll gain some in Europe too with the cheaper prices. In fact you might lose quite a few sales in Russia because people wouldn't buy the grey market keys as they'd be buying the European ones, for slightly more.
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Oi! My keys are legit yo. :p
 
FT, you've become very condescending and self-satisfied since becoming a mod. Shame.

Your obsession with my use of smilies is just bizarre ;)

I think you'd be a great English teacher tho. Being able to look at a winking smilie and write an essay about its meaning is something they'd no doubt respect a great deal. :) ;) :cool:
 
Specifically this bit...

FrenchTart said:
Again with the winking. It doesn't make you look clever you know.

Morals are indeed often ephemeral concepts and change over time. Your sideways attempt to suggest that your morals are borne of you being older than those that have expressed a different moral code to yourself do you as many favours as the ;) smilies.
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That's great and all, but it's 100% in your head.
 
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