Steven Gerrard

Well he certainly isn't a carthorse but i am struggling to remember his last good game, he has the ability theres no doubting that but where has it gone?

I can honestly say although he has dived he doesnt do it as regularly as other players have and i wouldnt say he's one of the worst. Just look at Joe Cole as a worse englishman.

And lastly, yes he moans at the ref but he is the captain and he has the right to question decisions. Yesterdays decision change can only be put at the feet of the ref, although he does seem to have a slightly worrying ability to change their minds surely that is the refs fault.
 
I'm just watching MOTD and this isn't the first time he's caught my attention... I surely cannot be the only person who really dislikes this man?

He's constantly berrating officials, looking for fouls and persuading referees to make disicions that go his teams way.

He does it for club and country, and it really cheeses me off.

I know he's not the only player to look for fouls, or talk to refs but he continually does it.

Against Villa, he ran into a player turned around and shouted at the ref... got the free kick and scored from it giving Liverpool a draw.

Today against Everton he went down in the box and got a penalty, which was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other... both players were sort of all over each other.

Yellow card comes out, Gerrard has a word and it turns from yellow to red.

His performances for Liverpool are always average, with the odd moments of good play or a brilliant long range shot or freekick... For England he's nearly always sub-par though...

Surely I can't be the only one who's noticed this or feels this way??

You obviously do not watch him week in week out like I do. To say his performances are always average is insane. He has grabbed games by the scruff of the neck many many times, covered miles of grass for the cause and is a true box-to-box midfielder. He would walk into any Premiership first XI and on his day is probably the best midfielder of his type in Europe, if not the world :)
 
I think it should be the captains right to approach the referee in a sporting or gentlemanly way and if he says go away then the captain should respect that. The ref's dont help themselves when they are trying to assert their authority by getting a yellow out putting it away for a red after word from the skipper be it Gerrard, Terry, Neville, Vieira or whoever.

What really grinds my gears with Gerrard though was his sanctimonious attak on Ronaldo at the start of last season about diving. Now I am not suggesting Gerrard dives but what he has gained and unfair advantage for his team on quite a few occasions by going down a little too easy. Two pens against Sheff Utd last season for starters and his blatant going to ground pre world cup warm ups are clear evidence. Whether he could have stopped on his feet against Everton is debatable but it didn't take much for him to go over

You obviously do not watch him week in week out like I do. To say his performances are always average is insane. He has grabbed games by the scruff of the neck many many times, covered miles of grass for the cause and is a true box-to-box midfielder. He would walk into any Premiership first XI and on his day is probably the best midfielder of his type in Europe, if not the world :)

I don't think Gerrard is far from what you say but where you get players like Pirlo and Gattuso having 8 very good games for club Milan in the league then Europe and turn in a pretty decent performance for Italy, I don't think we see that level of consistency from Gerrard. Maybe its the standard of opposition here and he needs a different challenge. I'd say he is in the top 5 central midfielders in Europe but he just needs to do what he does well more often imho
 
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I don't think Gerrard is far from what you say but where you get players like Pirlo and Gattuso having 8 very good games for club Milan in the league then Europe and turn in a pretty decent performance for Italy, I don't think we see that level of consistency from Gerrard. Maybe its the standard of opposition here and he needs a different challenge. I'd say he is in the top 5 central midfielders in Europe but he just needs to do what he does well more often imho

Gerrard doesn't perform for England. But who does?

He is going through a bit of a bad patch, by his own standards, at the moment but if you look at the 2005/06 season he was consistently fantastic. During the 2006/07 season he was not as great but still a steady performer.
 
Nikebee it would help if your arguements were actually true, Rooney was not "often" stuck up front on his own at all, it happend at the world cup for 1 (or 2) games and maybe the odd qualifier. He was "often" stuck up there with Owen, and if Owen wasn't fit it would have been Crouch or Defoe. Rooney has played much, much worse than Gerrard for England since Euro 2004.

Stop talking rubbish.

edit: just to back up my point the starting forwards under sven after euro 2004 (when rooney played):

v Wales - Rooney + Owen
v Azerbajan - Rooney + Owen
v Spain - Rooney + Owen
v Holland - Rooney + Owen
v N Ireland - Rooney + Owen
v Azerbajan - Rooney + Owen
v Denmark - Rooney + Defoe
v Wales - Rooney
v N Ireland - Rooney + Owen
v Poland - Rooney + Owen
v Argentina - Rooney + Owen
v Uruguay - Rooney + Bent
v Sweden - Rooney + Owen
v Ecuador - Rooney
v Portugal - Rooney



So thats 3 times he played up front by himself between 2004 and 2006, and 12 times he had a striking partner.

Rooney has no excuses for playing poorly for England for that period of time.

Get off home with you.

In the past three years he has been deployed left, right, has had a clueless, misfiring midfield behind him,, he's been injured (twice) his strike partners have been inexperienced, ineffective, or injured and to top it all between 2004 and 2006 Sven's team as a WHOLE was a unbalanced, badly set up, ill thought out mess.

He's a very young link man, who should be able to rely on the likes of Stephen "best midfielder in the world" Gerrard (tm) to actually get the ball to him rather than asking him to battle it out in the air with defenders a good foot taller than him.
 
yep. Suck it up tbh. He's by no means the most voracious or the most insistent. Just watch John Terry for proof.

Edit. Someone posted inbetween - I was agreeing with those above :D

its worth noting however that in the very first game without mourinho in charge the ENTIRE TEAM was noticeably absent from harrasing the referee all game long, and terry was much less of a tit than normal in that sense.

remember, owen never used to be a diver, nor most of the england team. do we not remember the instant sven took over that suddenly the whole freaking england team(and only for the england team) they all started to fall over as if shot anywhere that was a good position for beckham to take a free kick, remember beckhams flinging himself over, a virtual solo backflip winning a freekick. gerrard likewise in the most recent cup i think the first game(or maybe those friendlies just before) he threw himself to the ground about 3 yards from anyone and got up and looked rather embarassed.


i think its mostly managers, some decide cheating is fine, a lot of the players who miraculously started diving started to do it more and more in the premiership and now gerrard does indeed dive constantly. sheffield utd i think end of last year, 3 penalties in a game, two won from gerrard, one with minimal contact, one where he was 2 yards clear of anyone.

the penalty yesterday, the shirt pulling they were both doing it. but watch the replays, for NO REASON his right foot suddenly goes off to the right, infront of hibert, in a position that was completely unatural, there was no contact, he forced the contact by pushing his leg over, also his left foot, he suddenly decided to just drop to the ground, you can actually see his left foot about to hit the ground completely normally and he just pulls it away and goes down.

he dives constantly and its a joke, ronaldo is still a big softy, but has gotten soooo much better than he was in the first season. there is also the case of extremely fast players, especially more lightweight ones, a slight tap at high speed can knock you off balance, and sometimes jumping over a tackle is better than going straight into a tackle and risking injury. thats not particular to ronaldo, lots of players have that issue and it can be hard for a ref to tell the difference between avoiding injury, diving, and just a plain old foul.

but the one thing, forcing contact like gerrard did is fairly plainly obvious. its just completely not natural for his leg to do what he did, he dived and the ref fell for it, then the ref was affected by gerrards words, then the ref failed to give at least one stone cold penalty to everton. not to mention the 2nd penalty for pool it looked an almost certain handball from voronin i think just outside the box before was it macherano took his shot. then even from the shot 2 players were offside, though i don't think whoever shot after that was. but pennant was very VERY close to being offside, but crappy angles and it wasn't clear.

overall liverpool deserved neither penalty, everton probo should have had at least one, neither everton player should have been sent off, gerrard should have been carded for dives. sissoko again spent the entire game passing badly and going in violently on everyone. kuyt isn't normally dirty, but 99% of games thats a red card and carragher gave away foul after foul after foul, and had that long LONG rant at the ref and gave away a penalty in the dying seconds yet only recieved one yellow card late on.


diving is one thing, competant refering would see diving become totally useless.
 
its worth noting however that in the very first game without mourinho in charge the ENTIRE TEAM was noticeably absent from harrasing the referee all game long, and terry was much less of a tit than normal in that sense.

What the same game where Terry tried to take a card off the referee and Chelsea were charged with failing to control their players? :confused:
 
theres an incredibly easy way to solve all refering and cheating in the game.

anyone watch american football? the managers get two red flags, if theres a massive game changing decision they have the right to throw the red flag onto the field, at which point a tv by the side will show a replay to the ref's, he has 30 seconds to watch it and make up his mind. if the ref decides the decision stands, the manager loses a red flag, if the ref changes his mind then the manager keeps the red flag.

what this does is basically means the ref gets every major decision right, and managers don't just stop the game on every decision, because if they are wrong the lose the flags. if they waste the flags in the first 5 mins of the game there are no more flags, so should a bad penalty decision get made they CAN'T dispute it. in american football the red flags never get abused, they are occasionally used on a wrong decision because sometimes calls are close.

but that spurs goal where man u keeper "saved" it from 2 yards behind the goal, jol throws a red flag, play is stopped 5 seconds into the replay the goal would be given and play goes on.

it would pretty much stop all the ref harrasing which takes more than the 30 seconds needed to see a replay anyway.

also formula 1 style press conferences, in this case choose the ref, gerrard and say neville, they show replays and people have to answer, after seeing footage. they wouldn't lie because they've seen replay, it would bring some honesty out, and gerrard wouldn't dive if he knows right after the game he'd have to say on tv, to everyone that he dived as there would be proof.

the first thing alone would fix 99% of the bad decisions in football, the 2nd thing would stop people trying to cheat in the first place a lot and reduce the amount of diving in the first place.
 
What the same game where Terry tried to take a card off the referee and Chelsea were charged with failing to control their players? :confused:

was it mikel, i'm still confused by that whole thing, i remember it happening, i specifically remember that mikel tried to hold the ref's arm down, i really don't remember terry doing it as what after he showed the card he stopped him putting it in his pocket? it makes no sense. though if theres a youtube link of the footage i'm happy to watch it.

but that's an emotional huge game changing thing and DOESN'T change the rest of the game. in all chelsea's other games a throw in goes the wrong way and the entire team would be surrounding the ref, in that game BOTH COMMENTATORS both pointed out that they were playign more attacking and that they weren't surrounding the ref as much as before and were getting on with it.

if in a normal game they surround the ref 50 times, with no sendings off, then in a different game they only do it 10 times, but one time, because of a red card it got a touch out of hand, doesn't stop the fact that they were much better in that game.
 
Baz87 said:
To say that Rooney is a solid performer for club and country (implying that Gerrard isn't) is a complete joke. Rooney has been one of Englands worst performers (if not the very worst) for a very long time and has hardly set the world alight since joining Utd, as you would put it he's just played 'normal'. In actual fact many Utd fans on here complained about him last season. Rooney has done nothing more than Gerrard has over the last couple of seasons and like i said earlier, the only reason you've started this thread is because you're a Utd fan and seen this as a chance to have a dig at Gerrard.

Rooney has scored 17, 19 and 23 goals in the seasons he's played for us. Two of those seasons he was alongside RvN who was our main goal scorer, hardly a bad few seasons. And if you have any complaints about his goal tally, you can't argue about his performances or his contribution, 5, 14 and 16 assists in those seasons. Saying he hasn't "set the world alight" is a ridiculous statement and just shows how caught up in the hype you were about him, to me and every other united fan he's been excellent and probably our most consistant performer over the past three seasons.

The media had him made out as the greatest player to ever live, at 18 years old. He's not that, but he's still probably the best English player there is.

I think Rooney did a fair bit more than Gerrard last season. Leading scorer for a team that won the league can't be too bad, and he didn't go missing in the big games either despite what people may say:

- Pretty much every game vs Arsenal since he's joined
- Roma x 2
- Milan at home (away game was a bad performance from all)
- Cup final vs Chelsea where he was on a one man mission when nobody else turned up

I'll agree Rooney has been useless for England since 04, but thats the case for the other 10 too in reality. For United he's been brilliant and worth every bit of the 30m we paid.

And shamelessly ripped from Wikipedia:

Barclays Player of the Month: February 2005, December 2005, March 2006
PFA Team of the Year: 2005-06
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year: 2005-06
FIFPro Young Player of the Year: 2005
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year: 2005
PFA Young Player of the Year: 2005, 2006
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (Premiership): 2006
Match of the Day's Goal of the Season: 2004-05, 2006-07

Can't be doing too bad. The thread is about Gerrard, no need to turn it around to have a bash at United.
 
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I've noticed Gerrard goes down on the grass for the slightest of things, it's really annoying. a lot of foreigners do it, and it's pretty much expected, but a proper English footballer shouldn't, you'd never see it from John Terry.

but Terry won't think twice about stopping a ball with his hands and pretending it never happened, and he is one of the worst around for harrassing officials. And where's cheating Drogba who admits he throws himself on the floor live on Sky Sports, and dancing boy Ronaldo who manages to make a tiny touch seem like a punch from Mike Tyson? Admittedly they aren't English - but they are playing for English teams, so they should be just as much under the spotlight as anyone else in that league.

There are far worse out there than Gerrard. I'm not saying he's wholly innocent, none of them are - but he's certainly not the worst.
 
he dives constantly and its a joke, ronaldo is still a big softy, but has gotten soooo much better than he was in the first season. there is also the case of extremely fast players, especially more lightweight ones, a slight tap at high speed can knock you off balance, and sometimes jumping over a tackle is better than going straight into a tackle and risking injury. thats not particular to ronaldo, lots of players have that issue and it can be hard for a ref to tell the difference between avoiding injury, diving, and just a plain old foul.
This is something a lot of people never think about. Diouf often has a similar problem, but much like Ronaldo, his reputation goes against him.
 
Can't be doing too bad. The thread is about Gerrard, no need to turn it around to have a bash at United.

Not trying to have a dig at Utd, simply asked the question why not start a thread about Rooney as the reasons for this thread were Gerrard's form for England and mainly his abusing of officials and in all honesty Rooney is far worse on both counts.

Had somebody actually started a similar thread about Rooney i would have still said it was a rubbish thread as there are so many other players guilty of the same offences and the only reason for singling a player out is because of the dislike of a certain club.
What really grinds my gears with Gerrard though was his sanctimonious attak on Ronaldo at the start of last season about diving.

I can't remember him having a go at Ronaldo for diving, wasn't it just him saying that he wouldn't have been able to forgive one of his 'friends' had they helped get me sent off?
 
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Terry, Trying to nick the refs red card, Horrible behaviour from the ENGLAND captain.

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Chelsea behaviour is disgusting. Gerrard had a word, I don’t mind players having a word but backing refs in corners and bombarding them with 4 or 5 players is just wrong.
 
*Disclaimer - I am a Liverpool fan*

Everyone is saying oooh it shouldn't be the Brit players falling over, leave that to the Italians / Spaniads etc - step back and take a look at the premiership. There are a majority of overseas players in the premiership (and slowly the lower leagues are filling up with overseas players), so at the end of the day there are a minority of 'upstanding, clean playing Brits'.

If you can't beat them join then - yes, its a crap state of affairs when players dive, but when the Britsih players see foreigners (ronaldo *cough*) faliing over like he stepped on a land mine and getting awarded something then why should they battle on skillfully when they can do the same thing.

When I was a nipper (and still a mighty Liverpool fan) there were not a lot of overseas players and the standard was better - harder games, more skillful - alas thats no more.

Yes it was a dodgy penalty decision, the red card was warrented even if Gerrard had to remind the ref of the rules, the flying kick was a red and Carra yanking back in the box was a defo penalty but at the end of the day its the refs decision - I have seen decisions go against Liverpool before.

Anyway, my 2p worth whilst I wait for the central heating to fill up and see if this frikkin radiator leaks still!

M.
 
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I'm just watching MOTD and this isn't the first time he's caught my attention... I surely cannot be the only person who really dislikes this man?

He's constantly berrating officials, looking for fouls and persuading referees to make disicions that go his teams way.

He does it for club and country, and it really cheeses me off.

I know he's not the only player to look for fouls, or talk to refs but he continually does it.

Against Villa, he ran into a player turned around and shouted at the ref... got the free kick and scored from it giving Liverpool a draw.

Today against Everton he went down in the box and got a penalty, which was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other... both players were sort of all over each other.

Yellow card comes out, Gerrard has a word and it turns from yellow to red.

His performances for Liverpool are always average, with the odd moments of good play or a brilliant long range shot or freekick... For England he's nearly always sub-par though...

Surely I can't be the only one who's noticed this or feels this way??

In an ideal world the referee would get respect and no-one would question his decision, unfortunately referees do make mistakes and the captain should have a word with him if he thinks this is the case. But only the captain! Gerrard does scream and swear which is unacceptable. He is supposed to be a role model for young kids, and the fact he sets a bad example like this means we cant be suprised when kids copy this on the school field! (if they still have a school field after the government has sold them all, but thats a different discussion ;) )
 
Get off home with you.

In the past three years he has been deployed left, right, has had a clueless, misfiring midfield behind him,, he's been injured (twice) his strike partners have been inexperienced, ineffective, or injured and to top it all between 2004 and 2006 Sven's team as a WHOLE was a unbalanced, badly set up, ill thought out mess.

He's a very young link man, who should be able to rely on the likes of Stephen "best midfielder in the world" Gerrard (tm) to actually get the ball to him rather than asking him to battle it out in the air with defenders a good foot taller than him.

He did very well in Euro 2004, the team didn't change whatsoever after that. We had the same manager, players etc. How come he was performing so well in the Euros but was crap after that?

Also, his main strike partner has been Owen, and you describe him as "inexperianced and inneffective"? LOL, how about our "most experianced" and perhaps our "most effective" player over the years, well on the way to breaking Charlton's goal record. That would be a much more accurate description of Rooney's strike partner.
 
My take on diving : If you cant beat them,join them.

Untill fifa,uefa & ref's grow some nads we have no chance of clamping down on diving,ref berrating etc.

I dont care if Gerrard hasnt performed for England, id rather have him doing his stuff for us fit and ready, If England managers cant setup the tactics to get the best out of the players, then you cant really blame the players for it.

Ref was particularly rubbish yesterday, he should have set his stall out early tbh.
 
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