Stirling Moss Bigotry

There just aren't enough girls being pushed to go into karting, or pushing their parents to take them karting.

I was at a karting track yesterday and there was 1 young girl. And that was it.

That said, Sarah Moore won the Ginetta Junior championship (3?) years ago, and Louise(?) Richardson was running towards the front either last year or the year before. I'd argue both were picked on more than their testosterone-fuelled competitors and frequently taken out or barged aside, refusing to be beaten by a girl. There is a social issue, but it's happening on the track as much as off it.
 
He was making a point about the difference in the mental approach of a female and a male and there is some validity in this aspect for men and women are different. However, I am not sure this impacts on the ability of the right woman in the right car, I suspect not based on Desire Wilson and Michelle Mouton who were both (and still are in Desire's case) right on the pace of many top line men.

Moss has always been old school in his outlook so nothing surprising there and he has never struck me as anything more than a typical alpha male from a former generation or two, but he was in his day a genius behind the wheel. I thought the program had some interesting insights but was very poorly produced with lots of duff comments and some TERRIBLE overdubbing of sound effects that did my head in. What that showed was it was aimed at people who know little about the sport but are interested in women against the blokes.

Motorsport has always been the domain of men and been chauvinistic and it's going to take a woman of extremely strong mental attitude to get over that. It was obvious Sussie Wolfe struggled with it so perhaps Moss's assessment was on the money in her case and she is there because she is average but female. Thing is at the top of the sport she races average means incredibly quick by normal standards, just not quick enough I suspect.

I saw Desire Wilson win her F1 race ironically in a Wolf and also saw her race very quickly in a DeCadenet Le Mans in 1980 to win the Silverstone 6 hours and I have seen her race very rapidly at the Revival too. She was the quickest female of them all in my book and with the right kit could have been on the podium in F1 I feel. If you read the interview she did in Motorsport recently you will see the crap she had to put up with but also get to know how hard nosed she was, something typical of many South African females in my experience.
 
I don't believe there is any reason a woman couldn't make it in F1 the simple fact is the talent pool of female drivers is a tiny fraction of male ones.

If we say only the top 0.1% of male racing drivers get a chance in F1 there are probably 100 times fewer female racing drivers so to find 1 that is up to the standard of racing in F1 is a very very long shot.

Lets be honest here if there was any female driver even remotely capable of competing in F1 there would be 5 or 6 teams in the middle or back of the grid who would take a chance just for all the free publicity and PR it would give them.
 
Janesy B said:
Women have separate competitions for tennis, football and golf so why is motorsport any different?
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Not the case with horse riding or virtually all forms of auto racing. If females can be astronauts, fighter pilots and surgeons then I don't see any reason that they can't compete in motorsport at a high level. As some others have pointed out, the female driver pool is quite small at the moment which is likely why we haven't seen one come up the ranks recently.
 
Janesy B said:
I wasn't actually telling you to go away, don't take it so literally. I should have realised how sensitive you were from your opening post.

You clearly don't welcome opinions and you can't even reply without resorting to personal insults. I can tell you it's hardly offensive because THAT'S MY OPINION and I WAS NOT offended by the comments because I have the sense to realise he was brought up into a different world than you and I. This clearly falls into the category of 'silly old man making a silly comment' and nothing more, there's no malice in it.
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Ok, no problem. However I did address the morality issue earlier in this topic and I stand by the self evident fact that Moss has not evolved his way of thinking over the years with regard to his views on women and homosexuals. Being born in a different era is one thing, but sticking by your outdated views when you have every opportunity to realise they are wrong is clearly an ignorant thing to do.

Janesy B said:
I still stand by the brainwashed comments, your post looks something straight out of a BBC synopsis. She's not talented or inspirational in the slightest, she's just another mediocre racing driver to me regardless of sex.
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I honestly disagree here. Regardless of how you think my post looks, I fail to see what that has to do with anything, it's just the way I type, sorry ! I think it's clear that she has talent. She was asked by Williams to drive that F1 car around that lap in 52 seconds and she managed 52.3. Now which ever way you cut it, she has some talent. I think instead of dismissing her as mediocre (yes she didn't do great in her time in DTM) she should be given an opportunity to see if she can progress and improve. I also find her inspirational. Which is my opinion. I understand that you don't and that's fine.
 
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Sliver, I think this young lady would be a better example of a competitive female racer:

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http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Red-Bull-Junior-Team-2012---Multimedia/001243333526410

The newest Red Bull junior, Bietske Visser. Multiple race wins in Formula ADAC, KZ1 (de facto world karting championship) and the Dutch Supercar Challenge series. Raced and won while suffering from a back injury. Not bad for an 18 year old I think.
 
One of the guys at work, big Ferrari fan, watches most of the races but doesn't know that much about Motorsport outside F1 asked why there isn't a woman driver good enough for F1. I told him there isn't one good enough for F1 BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE GOOD ENOUGH. If there was they'd have been groomed and snapped up early. Think of the sponsorship potential! Always Ultra McLaren Honda! Maybelline Scuderia Ferrari! Simply Sauber!

Sure some of the Indycar drivers show glimpses of potential. Di Selvestro has done quite well in some races but Indycar is more about Fuel runs and getting off the slow tyre than outright speed.
 
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MissChief said:
Sure some of the Indycar drivers show glimpses of potential. De Silvestro has done quite well in some races but Indycar is more about Fuel runs and getting off the slow tyre than outright speed.
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The only person I recall being on a fuel run in the last Indycar race was Will Power, and it didn't pay off for him. Hunter-Reay wasn't driving a fuel number to claw back the huge lead that Castroneves had in the final 20 or so laps at Alabama. Dixon wasn't conserving fuel while he chased down the leaders either. Incidentally two of those three are from the CART era so they know how to muscle powerful (~1000hp) cars around. People make fun of Kimball for being a pay driver but even he had multiple Formula 3 wins in Europe.

HVM were basically Minardi Team USA so it's too early to say whether de Silvestro has any potential. Given that there is no power steering (or other driver aids) and a course like Barber Motorsports Park is not a flat Tilkedrome but full of fast, flowing corners, I'd say there is at least as much physical effort required compared to the current iteration of F1.
 
Now women are slowly but surely being given the same opportunities thanks to the advances of feminism, it won't be too many generations until this kind of latent sexism is wiped out from the western world.

Just look at how many people post in motors "ugh, women drivers!" and what not, it still exists today, its just getting better, slowly.
 
sr4470 said:
The only person I recall being on a fuel run in the last Indycar race was Will Power, and it didn't pay off for him. Hunter-Reay wasn't driving a fuel number to claw back the huge lead that Castroneves had in the final 20 or so laps at Alabama. Dixon wasn't conserving fuel while he chased down the leaders either. Incidentally two of those three are from the CART era so they know how to muscle powerful (~1000hp) cars around. People make fun of Kimball for being a pay driver but even he had multiple Formula 3 wins in Europe.

HVM were basically Minardi Team USA so it's too early to say whether de Silvestro has any potential. Given that there is no power steering (or other driver aids) and a course like Barber Motorsports Park is not a flat Tilkedrome but full of fast, flowing corners, I'd say there is at least as much physical effort required compared to the current iteration of F1.
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I was referring to Danica's win in Indycar which some cynics say she lucked into because of fuel strategy. Of course if anyone else won by fuel strategy iot wouldn't have been half as big a deal. She's doing OK in Nascar, possibly even exceeding expectations but in order to really quieten the cynics she needs to make The Chase.
 
Sliver said:
Ok, no problem. However I did address the morality issue earlier in this topic and I stand by the self evident fact that Moss has not evolved his way of thinking over the years with regard to his views on women and homosexuals. Being born in a different era is one thing, but sticking by your outdated views when you have every opportunity to realise they are wrong is clearly an ignorant thing to do.
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I don't really agree with his views, but he's being nothing more than a silly old fart and it doesn't help when the tabloid press probe and take what he says out of context to make headlines. To me he's still a hero.

Sliver said:
I honestly disagree here. Regardless of how you think my post looks, I fail to see what that has to do with anything, it's just the way I type, sorry ! I think it's clear that she has talent. She was asked by Williams to drive that F1 car around that lap in 52 seconds and she managed 52.3. Now which ever way you cut it, she has some talent. I think instead of dismissing her as mediocre (yes she didn't do great in her time in DTM) she should be given an opportunity to see if she can progress and improve. I also find her inspirational. Which is my opinion. I understand that you don't and that's fine.
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Shamelessly stolen from PH but a year later but in the same car and circuit Bottas was putting in lap times 3 seconds quicker, hell Chilton who is derided as the worst of the worst pay drivers and he was putting in laps 2 seconds quicker in a much slower car.

1. Valtteri Bottas, Williams, 48.963s, 170 Laps
2. Max Chilton, Marussia, 49.932s, 52 Laps
3. Rio Haryanto, Marussia, 50.405s, 79 Laps

She will become an inspiration when she actually achieves something, there are more talented female drivers who don't get the attention and chances Susie has had.
 
Not read most of this thread as it seems to be a big fight about sexism.

But anyway, considering test drivers are next to useless to F1 teams, Susie Wolff is signed to Williams because she is married to Toto Wolff. Its as simple as that. Nothing to do with her being the best available, and not really anything to do with her being a woman.

However, if you want a good example of why teams do sign women, look at NASCAR. I follow it a bit, I don't really know much about it and I don't really know any of the drivers. However, I know Danica Patrics car in both the Nationwide and the Sprint Cup is bright green with orange numbers and is sponsorted by GoDaddy.com. Unless that M&Ms car and the McDonalds one still race, I couldn't tell you any other team sponsor.
 
sr4470 said:
The newest Red Bull junior, Bietske Visser. Multiple race wins in Formula ADAC, KZ1 (de facto world karting championship) and the Dutch Supercar Challenge series. Raced and won while suffering from a back injury. Not bad for an 18 year old I think.
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Sounds more promising that she may have the genuine talent to succeed. Looks are a bit freaky though :D

 
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