Suicide outside my office

p4radox said:
That's awful. I thought there were reserve 'chutes built in.

I assume that's a pretty rare occurence though...?
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It's very very rare - and yes there are reserves. I've seen 3 fatalities in such instances, one person took 48hrs to let go of her life :( In a more positive note I saw one chap slam into the ground at over 80mph, only to have suffered a bruised hip and a broken arm!

Unfortunately I've also been involved in a murder/suicide case which I can't talk about which is hideous.


Going back OT - I can't believe some of the callous responses of a lot of people. Nice and mature people - seriously, well done.
 
seek said:
Have you any idea how painful that would be?


Next ridiculous idea...?
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i guess a little more painful then being stabbed in the stomach. you do realise pain means little in that situation, the shock and feelings numb you and you drift off. so do you know how painful that would be? and yes its ridiculous but as a method of suicide its perfectly fine
 
seek said:
Perhaps not, but since we don't know why this woman killed herself (nor why she chose this manner to do it) I don't believe anyone here is in any position to be judgemental.
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Yes, that was my original point. No one is in a position to judge another person's situation when it comes to suicide..
 
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Freefaller said:
No doubt about the majority of your post, however is it really fair to call it cowardly? I don't think it's brave either, but I think cowardly is the wrong word. No?
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It is cowardly because they've chosen to run away from their problems rather than solve them - for example, running away from a battle, rather than standing their ground. Maybe there is a better word to use, I don't know, but it seems to fit.

Not all suicides are because people are being 'emo'. What about people who have a terminal illness? They could be dying slowly and face an excruciatingly painful drawn-out death which will be hell on earth for both themselves and their loved ones.

A few people witnessing their demise doesn't even come close to what the victim in question is going through.
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To be fair, I would assume that very few suicides are from Terminal Illnesses - and in that case, I suppose there is room for exception. There is no exception however, for them jumping off a building into a street full of people, including children. You would think that knowing what it feels like to go through immense pain that they would do what they can to avoid causing others pain.

Watching another human being splatter themselves against the pavement in front of your eyes is a very horrible and traumatic experience for anyone. Those sorts of things haunt your memories and dreams for many years, perhaps forever. That person has no regard for the well-being of the people who are going to witness such a terrible being, and will do it anyway. That is selfish.

Going back OT - I can't believe some of the callous responses of a lot of people. Nice and mature people - seriously, well done.
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Fair enough, RIP to the woman and may she rest in peace. I was just trying to examine it from another angle.
 
Gackt said:
It is cowardly because they've chosen to run away from their problems rather than solve them - for example, running away from a battle, rather than standing their ground. Maybe there is a better word to use, I don't know, but it seems to fit.
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I see where you're coming from, but I really don't think you could possibly comprehend what goes through someone's mind before suicide, unless you've been there yourself.

I'd be willing to bet that 99.9% of the population, when in sound state of mind, would agree that suicide is not a sensible option, no matter what your situation is. But when manic depression has set in, logic doesn't come into it.
 
Exactly, you can't analyse it as objectively and coldly as we're doing, it's far more complicated. Yes we're left to pick up the pieces so to speak (a horrid unintended pun), however we can get over it, I have (and I've unfortunately seen some horrific things in my life) and we can hopefully learn from that and try and help others before they have no one to turn to by their eternity.
 
Having suffered from clinical depression for the past 8 years of my life, I still don't know whether I consider suicide to be a cowardly act.

I've come close to attempting it once when everything started, but since then I've been able to "deal" with the daily nudges towards it (it's hard to explain, but almost like there's a seperate entity in your head attempting to convince you that you might as well just do it - most noticable during quiet moments when you're not busy, or stressful situations when your mind begins to race).

Anyway, all I can say that actually gathering the cojones to overstep your natural survival instinct and "get the job done" is immensely difficult. I had a hanging rig set up, house closed up with curtains drawn and was stood there getting ready. A couple of my mates pulled up out of the blue for a visit and knocked at the door. I answered it. To me, THAT was the cowardly act. Not only did I feel even more worthless because I didn't have the guts to actually finish the job, but now my friends were insurmountably shocked and didn't know what to do.

Do you guys seriously think that when someone is about to kill themselves they just stop thinking about the people they'll be leaving behind? About how much this is going to affect everyone else? I can tell you that they don't - and it's one of the most terrible, horrible, soul-twisting things to be going through your head when you really want to end it.

Self harm and self termination run against every biological facet we have. Not only is your body and mind actively fighting you when you reach the final stages, but the thoughts of your loved ones mean those who truly finish the job require an amount of determination not many people would be able to muster.

So no, "cowardice" isn't exactly the word I'd use.
 
Freefaller said:
Exactly, you can't analyse it as objectively and coldly as we're doing, it's far more complicated. Yes we're left to pick up the pieces so to speak (a horrid unintended pun), however we can get over it, I have (and I've unfortunately seen some horrific things in my life) and we can hopefully learn from that and try and help others before they have no one to turn to by their eternity.
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I couldn't agree more.

some people are on here are looking at suicide like it's black & white, it's sooooo much more complicated than that, my baby sister that I love more than anything in the world has attempted to commit suicide on a few occasions because of mental health problems, you think she was being selfish when she honest to god didn't want to be a burden on the family any more, she really thought genuinely that she would be doing us a favour because of all the problems that she has, you know what it's like to see you little sis in a mindset like that and you can't reach her, a place where no amount of hugging or loving is going to bring her out of it and you have to make decision between getting your own sis sectioned or know you could wake up in the middle of the night with the police knocking on your door telling you the inedible, it's hard,

when someone is at the point in their life when they are really considering suicide they are not in a place mentally many of you on here can imagine, selfishness, cowardliness, it doesn't exist in this mindset, they have reached an ultimate low, often lost and confused, and believe that not only by committing suicide they will be free from the pain of their life but also many believe the world will be better off without them, anyone that thinks it's easy to kill themselves is crazy seriously, like 'Pestilence' above said "Self harm and self termination run against every biological facet we have. Not only is your body and mind actively fighting you when you reach the final stages" (well put my friend), this is so true, to go against that is one of the hardest things you can do.
 
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vonhelmet said:
Yes, it's selfish. Yes, it's a permanent solution to temporary problems. No, these things are unlikely to persuade you when you're at rock bottom.
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Frankly, this post was the most irritating to me. This is why depression is largely ignored by too many people and why so many go unhappy through life. because every just tells them to shut up and get on with it when they feel like crap completely unwilling to understand that not everyone is identical. Normal people have a bad day, and get over it and seem to push this notion that this is identical to someone whose suffering from depression but its their fault because they can't be bothered to get on with it.

As for suicide being cowardly, what a holier than thou attitude to take. So its easier for someone to live unhappily in emotional and maybe physical pain(the body does make itself ill when depressed, real physical problems) because YOU can't imagine how bad it might be and YOU attach a stigma to suicide that makes them not want to do it. Its disgraceful to enforce your view of something like that on others to a point it can effect their lives, and that is what you are doing, make no mistake.

If people didn't arbitrarily decide on a view point on suicide then things like euthanasia would not be an issue, but in this day and age we still attach a stigma to everything because we are all self righteous aholes.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Frankly, this post was the most irritating to me. This is why depression is largely ignored by too many people and why so many go unhappy through life. because every just tells them to shut up and get on with it when they feel like crap completely unwilling to understand that not everyone is identical. Normal people have a bad day, and get over it and seem to push this notion that this is identical to someone whose suffering from depression but its their fault because they can't be bothered to get on with it.

As for suicide being cowardly, what a holier than thou attitude to take. So its easier for someone to live unhappily in emotional and maybe physical pain(the body does make itself ill when depressed, real physical problems) because YOU can't imagine how bad it might be and YOU attach a stigma to suicide that makes them not want to do it. Its disgraceful to enforce your view of something like that on others to a point it can effect their lives, and that is what you are doing, make no mistake.

If people didn't arbitrarily decide on a view point on suicide then things like euthanasia would not be an issue, but in this day and age we still attach a stigma to everything because we are all self righteous aholes.
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Ironically, it's because I agree with you that I posted what I did. I'll get back to you later when I'm not hurrying to do something else.
 
seek said:
Just because someone wants to die doesn't necessarily mean they automatically become immune to physical pain.
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after a certain amount of pain your brain cant handle it any more, as a method to protect you, if youve ever had a serious injury etc you would understand, luckily however you obviously havent. this is why people skilled in torture dont inflict too much pain because of this very reason.

Freefaller said:
Exactly, you can't analyse it as objectively and coldly as we're doing, it's far more complicated. Yes we're left to pick up the pieces so to speak (a horrid unintended pun), however we can get over it, I have (and I've unfortunately seen some horrific things in my life) and we can hopefully learn from that and try and help others before they have no one to turn to by their eternity.
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i think you must analyse everything objectively and coldly. its the only way to fully think about it without imposing your own ideas etc and therefore distorting the topic. youve seen horrible things? surely someone jumping off a building isnt up there.

and drunkenmaster people suffering from depression is their problem, everyone has to deal with problems, some more powerful than others, if they suicide, i wont call them cowardly, i strongly believe in that the more pressure and stress thrust upon someone only gives them the chance to push through it, conquer there problems and move on. for me it makes me more powerful and more determined. i wouldnt want an easier life, i want problems and stress. you think what has been done over history was easy if you see where im going with that. I think everyone has this inside them you just need to unlock it. i dont feel sad for them, i feel nothing, they must push through because how the hell is being depressed going to accomplish anything.

btw, you should close this topic imo..

lastly whoever came up with multi-quotes --> top notch
 
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For those claiming suicide is selfish, how about this scenario:

You are accussed of molesting a (and accused by the same) 13 year old girl at the age of 32, whom is also your sister in law.
Your wife takes your 4 month old daughter and leaves you, and refuses to speak to you.
The news "leaks out" and lynch mobs torment you, assault you, spit on you, cover your house in graffitti, vandalise your property, despite your protests of your innocence.
You are told you'll be serving a 15 year jail sentence, as the 13 year old's word is guaranteed to be taken over your's.
You are receiving bricks through your windows, multiple times a day, most with death threats attached.
You are sacked from a job you love.
Your friends disown you.
Your own mother is forced to ask you if you did or did not molest the 13 year old, because even she is having doubts due to all of the above.
Your name is brandished with the words "Paedophile" and "Child Molestor" in the press.
All of the above happens before you have even appeared in court.
You are absolutely destitute and have literally no one, and no where to turn to.
Hell even the samaritans turn their nose up at you.

So there you are, facing a potential life of torment, your family and friends have all but abandoned you. You can't move anywhere, no one believes you, it's impossible to "prove" your innocence and you'll probably be killed in a very painful way when in jail by other inmates.

You decide enough is enough, this pain is not going to end and it seems no one is even caring. You write two letters, one to your family, and one to your daughter for when she is old enough to understand.

You take a rope, and walk 16 miles into woodland. You would have driven, but your pickup truck was vandalised beyond repair. Along the way, you post your letters, praying that they will not be scrapped because you wrote them. At some point, you decide that to be sure your final message reaches your family, you type out many SMS messages on your phone, probably whilst walking the 16 miles, but decide not to send them - just save them.

You find a sturdy tree, tie a noose, climb the tree, tie the rope to a branch higher than that of the distance from rope end + your height to the ground. Place noose around neck and you jump.

Your lawyer is concerned after a few days of no contact.
A search party takes place and they find you after 2 days of searching.
Letters are received by family the day after you are found, and the SMS messages copied and delivered by the police on this day, too (cleared by forensics or whoever.) Not a single word of mailce or anger is in the messages. Nothing but a lengthy apology for taking your own life, with a few personal messages for your daughter. You explained you could not see how you would ever be happy again, how you have been brandished a paedophile and that it would always stick, even if by the non existant miracle you proved innocent.

Is that still selfish? To face a gruesome jail term, lynch mobbings for potentially the rest of your life, if you were to even survive the jail term? Your own family doubting you, some even refusing to acknowledge your existence? You can't even turn to the samaritans without being reminded just how low they look upon you. You can't get employed, you have no friends left, and can't make any new ones. You are likely to never see your daughter again, in fact the last time you saw or spoke to your wife and daughter was the morning you left for work, to come home to find they had gone. Etc. etc.

Is it actually selfish?



Oh, and for what little worth it has, the 13 year old confessed she lied all along, 5 months after my cousin hung himself.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
For those claiming suicide is selfish, how about this scenario:

You are accussed of molesting a (and accused by the same) 13 year old girl at the age of 32, whom is also your sister in law.
Your wife takes your 4 month old daughter and leaves you, and refuses to speak to you.
The news "leaks out" and lynch mobs torment you, assault you, spit on you, cover your house in graffitti, vandalise your property, despite your protests of your innocence.
You are told you'll be serving a 15 year jail sentence, as the 13 year old's word is guaranteed to be taken over your's.
You are receiving bricks through your windows, multiple times a day, most with death threats attached.
You are sacked from a job you love.
Your friends disown you.
Your own mother is forced to ask you if you did or did not molest the 13 year old, because even she is having doubts due to all of the above.
Your name is brandished with the words "Paedophile" and "Child Molestor" in the press.
All of the above happens before you have even appeared in court.
You are absolutely destitute and have literally no one, and no where to turn to.
Hell even the samaritans turn their nose up at you.

So there you are, facing a potential life of torment, your family and friends have all but abandoned you. You can't move anywhere, no one believes you, it's impossible to "prove" your innocence and you'll probably be killed in a very painful way when in jail by other inmates.

You decide enough is enough, this pain is not going to end and it seems no one is even caring. You write two letters, one to your family, and one to your daughter for when she is old enough to understand.

You take a rope, and walk 16 miles into woodland. You would have driven, but your pickup truck was vandalised beyond repair. Along the way, you post your letters, praying that they will not be scrapped because you wrote them. At some point, you decide that to be sure your final message reaches your family, you type out many SMS messages on your phone, probably whilst walking the 16 miles, but decide not to send them - just save them.

You find a sturdy tree, tie a noose, climb the tree, tie the rope to a branch higher than that of the distance from rope end + your height to the ground. Place noose around neck and you jump.

Your lawyer is concerned after a few days of no contact.
A search party takes place and they find you after 2 days of searching.
Letters are received by family the day after you are found, and the SMS messages copied and delivered by the police on this day, too (cleared by forensics or whoever.) Not a single word of mailce or anger is in the messages. Nothing but a lengthy apology for taking your own life, with a few personal messages for your daughter. You explained you could not see how you would ever be happy again, how you have been brandished a paedophile and that it would always stick, even if by the non existant miracle you proved innocent.

Is that still selfish? To face a gruesome jail term, lynch mobbings for potentially the rest of your life, if you were to even survive the jail term? Your own family doubting you, some even refusing to acknowledge your existence? You can't even turn to the samaritans without being reminded just how low they look upon you. You can't get employed, you have no friends left, and can't make any new ones. You are likely to never see your daughter again, in fact the last time you saw or spoke to your wife and daughter was the morning you left for work, to come home to find they had gone. Etc. etc.

Is it actually selfish?



Oh, and for what little worth it has, the 13 year old confessed she lied all along, 5 months after my cousin hung himself.
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Superb post, I don't honestly know what else to say.


End Thread.
 
platinum87 said:
i think you must analyse everything objectively and coldly. its the only way to fully think about it without imposing your own ideas etc and therefore distorting the topic. youve seen horrible things? surely someone jumping off a building isnt up there.
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I'm just not that sort of person I'm afraid - I'm human with a heart and emotions and I try to empathise rather than accuse and write people off. It's something that less and less people are doing it seems. It's a shame. No wonder the world is turning to a cold and hard place if that's the attitude people are wanting.

and drunkenmaster people suffering from depression is their problem, everyone has to deal with problems, some more powerful than others, if they suicide, i wont call them cowardly, i strongly believe in that the more pressure and stress thrust upon someone only gives them the chance to push through it, conquer there problems and move on. for me it makes me more powerful and more determined. i wouldnt want an easier life, i want problems and stress. you think what has been done over history was easy if you see where im going with that. I think everyone has this inside them you just need to unlock it. i dont feel sad for them, i feel nothing, they must push through because how the hell is being depressed going to accomplish anything.
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Just because you're strong and can deal with "stress" and "complications" and "depression" (which I seriously doubt is anything considerable compared to the people who feel they have to take their own lives) - it doesn't mean that it's valid for the majority of the people. Don;'t judge people by your strengths or weaknesses, but separately and in spite of those.

Frankly you're either saying this to sound tough or you're seriously a cold hearted person, and frankly it sadens me to hear such words from people. I feel sorry for you and I hope you learn to be less "tough". I suspect it's mostly forum talk,and it's admirable to wanting to be strong but not healthy.
 
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