Summer Transfer Window 2013/2014 aka Arsenal , we can afford folks and the mancs really want Fellani

[davejh666]

I think this is a case of Madrid writing cheques that their bank balance cant cash. Now they have are faced with a price (and they have not baulked at that price) that they cant raise the funds to meet.

I don't think it is anything of the sort. No club that makes a big signing pays for it all upfront, it is all done over installments. Modric & Ronaldo to Madrid were both the same.

And, although Spain as a country aren't exactly in the healthiest of financial situations, Real are bankrolled by the national bank, so no shortage of money there.

 

[RizGB]

ronaldo to madrid was done with one payment so many said

 

[Tunney]

Would that be possible these days with FFP rules though? Real Madrid make around £30mil profit a season.

 

[BaZ87]

Transfer fees, whether they're paid in 1 lump sum or spread over 3 or 4 years, are amortised over the life of a players contract. For example, if Real sign Bale for £80m on a 5 year contract, the cost to Real from an accounting point of view would be £16m per year for 5 years regardless of timing or size of installments actually paid to Spurs.

 

[MissChief]

And if Spurs are smart they'll be saying 'All up front' and RM won't be able to do it.

 

[Snax]

I don't think it is anything of the sort. No club that makes a big signing pays for it all upfront, it is all done over installments. Modric & Ronaldo to Madrid were both the same.

And, although Spain as a country aren't exactly in the healthiest of financial situations, Real are bankrolled by the national bank, so no shortage of money there.

And if Spurs are smart they'll be saying 'All up front' and RM won't be able to do it.

Exactly, the time value of money has an impact. If RM cant pay £100m now then, realistically, this needs to go to about £120m if paid over 5 years and if Levy wants to crush RM he will demand it all now.

What the hell are Spurs going to do with £20m after losing our best player? Also, if RM are bankrolled by a nation state I think everyone should be pushing for the EU to examine the situation and UEFA to apply FFP

 

[BaZ87]

Exactly, the time value of money has an impact.

The same way it impacts on near enough every transfer. It's incredibly rare that a club pay an entire transfer fee up front.

Real not willing to pay all the cash up front is hardly a surprise and what % of the fee is paid up front will have already been considered when determining the size of the fee.

What the hell are Spurs going to do with £20m...

The same thing Real are doing (and what 99% of other clubs) - agree deals and only pay 20-30% of the fee up front.

 

[Tummy]

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/premier-league/8853828/avb-criticises-carlo-conduct

Respect to Levy if he's holding onto Bale. As much as I'd like to see Spurs invest £100m+ into the squad and possibly even challenge for the title rather than just 4th, I cannot stand how badly Real Madrid have acted. Everyone from their president, manager and players, the arrogance of the club is astounding.

I am torn though tbh on what I would rather see Spurs do. Keep Bale and risk him getting injured or sell him and risk buying a load of David Bentley's?!

If we keep him and he continues to improve though.... it's gonna be a great season

If Real Madrid arrogant? Who do they think they are Real Madrid? .

Seriously, I have not been 'following' the Bale thing, what have Real Madrid done that has irked you so badly? Where have they acted so badly? What has their president said, the manager said and what have the players said?

I don't mean to be funny with the remark about who do they think they are, but Real Madrid are just a huge, powerful, influential and successful football club absolutely drenched in history.

 

[Dimi]

^ Small club syndrome

How dare RM go after one of the best players in the world, this is what they do. Get used to it.

If they're willing to cough up what Levy wants and going by what we've heard this past week with regards to Bale not wanting to miss out on this opportunity to play for the most glamorous football club in the world.

Why would Levy stand in his way, when you're getting more than what he'll be worth this time next year.

 

[dmcg]

bale to la liga ronaldo to epl please

 

[FrankJH]

The same thing Real are doing (and what 99% of other clubs) - agree deals and only pay 20-30% of the fee up front.

No way at all that big transfers like this only have 20-30% upfront.

70-80% upfront and the rest in performance related add ons , now that's more likely for such a premium player / transfer

Maybe for smaller clubs (bottom of La Liga/ EPL etc) they don't have the bargaining power to ask for larger %'s (and quite a lot of the time don't want to hold their player back from possibly their only chance at a "big" move)

(It also depends on whether a player has "failed" at RM say and moving to a less prestigious club, the upfront payment may well be smaller - than say from a more prestigious club like Spurs selling their most important player)

 

[omnomnom]

A transfer request doesn't do an awful lot of anything, it can reduce the effective price as it usually means a player isn't due their loyalty payments, but it doesn't force the club to sell. It's not in the players interest to put in a transfer request as you lose money. So ultimately a release clause that both doesn't cause a release, and at best might lead to putting in a transfer request that loses you money... when everyone else has a standard release clause that means the club accept and you get your loyalty payments.

Contracts are a negotiation, lets say Ronaldo, he signs an insane wage deal with a huge wage rise and also has a 1billion buy out clause, it means Real have secured him. He could turn down that clause, but the club are less willing to pay him so highly as with a sensible clause for Ronaldo, say 100mil, they might lose him and have to pay out a huge loyalty payment. So to get a lower release clause they would concede elsewhere, lower wages, lower bonuses, etc, etc.

Having a lower and sensible release clause put into the contract that the club can't refuse would almost certainly also come with a negative point for Suarez, IE we want to leave if someone offers 40mil, we'll take lower wages to have that clause in.

In what negotiation does putting in a clause that doesn't help him leave the club make sense at all but also likely came with a down side, none is the answer. He's getting precisely nothing out of that "release" clause, and both Liverpool and Suarez are calling it a release clause. Classic bait and switch if you ask me, show them a contract, they read through it, just before signing someone says "wow, look at the boobs on her", Suarez's guys all turn around and LIverpool guys switch the contract for one with a crippled release clause

Are you still having a go at Liverpool when it's Suarez' agent etc that are the issue?

The transfer request wouldn't effect loyalty payments, as far as I'm aware players get them every year, usually at the end of the season. It's not a percentage of the deal to sell the player.

 

[FrankJH]

The transfer request wouldn't effect loyalty payments, as far as I'm aware players get them every year, usually at the end of the season. It's not a percentage of the deal to sell the player.

handing in a transfer request CAN effect the transfer amount (the selling club have less negotiating power, as the player is showing he is keen on the move), which in turn affect how much the player gets as a "golden goodbye".

Obviously it does depend on the individual contract of each player. The more senior /important a player to the side the more likely there will be something like this in the original contract (depending on how good the agent is of course too)

 

[drunkenmaster]

No way at all that big transfers like this only have 20-30% upfront.

70-80% upfront and the rest in performance related add ons , now that's more likely for such a premium player / transfer

It's not the same thing, you have the cash certain part of a deal, and the clauses/addons part.

Arsenal could have bought say Higuain at 30mil, with 10mil of addons for various achievements, cups, goals scored, appearances in the champs league, being Arsenal Higuain would probably add one, injured more than 3 times in one season release clause

But that 30mil can still be paid any which way, the addons aren't certain money, its a way to pay less if the player isn't as good as you hope essentially, and for the selling club to get more if they believe the player is better than his recent form has suggested and get paid more for it. The 30mil could be 20mil upfront and 3 yearly payments for the rest, it could be 3mil a year for 10 years, it could be a 36 months 0% interest deal with a free sofa thrown in to be paid in full at the end.


To Spurs it won't make much difference, they have cash on hand, they'll get 20mil, I would suspect they would have 50-60mil they can pay out upfront but they know they have a 20mil extra income over 4 more years and they can make deals where the people they bring in are paid for over 4 years. Some clubs won't take a deal like that, usually if they are in financial trouble and are desperate for the cash, most do business the same way and won't have a problem. AFAIK Soldado is the same 10mil upfront and 3 yearly payments.

Ultimately most deals get reported as the cash amount and the addons(sometimes... often wrong) with how the money is to be paid rarely talked about because its mostly unimportant.

In terms of FFP, as Baz said the fee would likely go down as if 100mil in one go, but when that happens the fee is still amortised over the length of the contract which (Benzema, Ronnie, most of the rest) is 6 years at Real so well below their current profit levels per year, ignoring they can make a 45mil loss averaged over 3 seasons.

 

[BaZ87]

No way at all that big transfers like this only have 20-30% upfront.

70-80% upfront and the rest in performance related add ons , now that's more likely for such a premium player / transfer...

You seem confused Frank. I didn't mention performance related add-ons. Transfers usually have a guaranteed minimum amount that's to be paid + possible bonus's depending on performance. That minimum amount does not have to be paid in 1 lump sum, it can and often is spread over several years.

It's very normal for transfer fees (just the guaranteed part) to be paid over 3, 4 or even 5 years.

..."golden goodbye"....

According to a sports lawyer that deals with Premier League contracts, this is a myth. He claims that players get a loyalty bonus at a certain point of each season regardless of whether they want to leave or not. Unless something specific is wrote into their contract regarding a cut of any transfer fee received for them and also whether that's affected by a transfer request, then players aren't entitled to any bonus related to their transfer.

 

[bloodline76]

Arsenal have apparently signed German defender/midfielder ginter for £6.1m

Steady on there wenger if true, soon be blowing that £77m war chest

 

[Chong Warrior]

Exactly, the time value of money has an impact. If RM cant pay £100m now then, realistically, this needs to go to about £120m if paid over 5 years and if Levy wants to crush RM he will demand it all now.

I think Levy has proved himself to be a savy businessman and one of the hardest to deal with in football. I'm sure he will be aware of how to get the best deal for himself, especially when he's in such a strong position regarding length of contract and Bale behaving himself.

What the hell are Spurs going to do with £20m after losing our best player? Also, if RM are bankrolled by a nation state I think everyone should be pushing for the EU to examine the situation and UEFA to apply FFP

They are bankrolled by a nation state that is skint? Real still owe Spurs £12m from the Modric deal. They don't have £100m, they will be trying to include players in the deal at inflated 'Bale' prices and payments spread over the next 10 years.

If Real Madrid arrogant? Who do they think they are Real Madrid? .

Seriously, I have not been 'following' the Bale thing, what have Real Madrid done that has irked you so badly? .....

Are you for Real? (pun intended )

You're quizzing me about something you can't be bothered to follow? How does that work?

 

[Nate75]

Real still owe Spurs £12m from the Modric deal.

wow, didn't know that

 

[Bucket]

They are bankrolled by a nation state that is skint? Real still owe Spurs £12m from the Modric deal. They don't have £100m, they will be trying to include players in the deal at inflated 'Bale' prices and payments spread over the next 10 years.

wow, didn't know that

Hey, BaZ, are you ready to explain instalments again?

Round and round we go.

Real Madrid aren't 'skint', especially if you include their outgoings of players for just this season already.

 

[Chong Warrior]

^ Small club syndrome

How dare RM go after one of the best players in the world, this is what they do. Get used to it.

If they're willing to cough up what Levy wants and going by what we've heard this past week with regards to Bale not wanting to miss out on this opportunity to play for the most glamorous football club in the world.

Why would Levy stand in his way, when you're getting more than what he'll be worth this time next year.

Such a small club they've just broken their own transfer record twice in the last 4 weeks and spent £50m on 3 players. I think you'll find Spurs are one of the bigger and better run clubs that don't have a sugar daddy paying all the bills for them? (I don't want a tit for tat playground arguement about who's a big club, just pointing out Spurs are showing real ambition, there's no small club mentality)

I see little has changed in here, peeps still tend to just read what they want and spout off. My original post was nothing to do with Real Madrid wanting to sign Bale, off course they do, so does almost every club in the world at the moment. Difference is other clubs aren't talking about him to the press as if he's their player, they will be doing it through official channels. There's a rule in football about tapping up players from another club.... Real Madrid act as if they're above this rule. I think AVB and Spurs have handled this very well upto now but something needs to be said.