Supplements the debate/discussion thread

Does anyone here use any fat burning pills? do they work well?

I was thinking of ordering these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-fx-...1393152078&sr=8-2&keywords=optimum+fat+burner

Would like to hear some views though first and my diet usually is pretty good however i want to lose as much fat as possible in the next 5 weeks before i go on holiday.(i go gym 4 times a week now and do 30mins cardio after each weights session with some days walking for an hour or so too outside the gym at a fast pace)

So are these worth it?:)
 
I got a 5kg Myprotein bag, 1kg Myprotein bag and 1kg tub of ON Gold Standard at the moment so dont think i need more right now. :p

Yeah true but thought i would ask here with some experienced people around, think i'll just stick to my good eating and raise the intensity of cardio each week.(2h total a week from the workouts seems a good amount as my fat has gone down a lot)
 
Sycho said:
I got a 5kg Myprotein bag, 1kg Myprotein bag and 1kg tub of ON Gold Standard at the moment so dont think i need more right now. :p

Yeah true but thought i would ask here with some experienced people around, think i'll just stick to my good eating and raise the intensity of cardio each week.(2h total a week from the workouts seems a good amount as my fat has gone down a lot)
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Much difference between the MP and On Whey? I wanted some ON chocolate mint but can't justify double the price over a brand!
Someone else might have experience with tablets though. I'm cutting and looked into tablets and decided against it eating well lifting heavy and a bit of cardio is doing me good just track your macros.
 
Sycho said:
Does anyone here use any fat burning pills? do they work well?

I was thinking of ordering these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-fx-...1393152078&sr=8-2&keywords=optimum+fat+burner

Would like to hear some views though first and my diet usually is pretty good however i want to lose as much fat as possible in the next 5 weeks before i go on holiday.(i go gym 4 times a week now and do 30mins cardio after each weights session with some days walking for an hour or so too outside the gym at a fast pace)

So are these worth it?:)
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No, eat less.
 
Sycho said:
Does anyone here use any fat burning pills? do they work well?

I was thinking of ordering these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-fx-...1393152078&sr=8-2&keywords=optimum+fat+burner

Would like to hear some views though first and my diet usually is pretty good however i want to lose as much fat as possible in the next 5 weeks before i go on holiday.(i go gym 4 times a week now and do 30mins cardio after each weights session with some days walking for an hour or so too outside the gym at a fast pace)

So are these worth it?:)
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A) fat burners don't work - if they did we'd all be using them
B) in fat loss terms, 5 weeks is nothing unless you're full of muscle-sparing drugs and eating like a size 0 model
C) if you're prepared to eat uber-strictly, the best results you could get would be by following something like Lyle McDonald's RFL (Rapid Fat Loss) diet, which is a truly miserable experience for everyone that does it.
 
Yeah i know 5 weeks isn't much but i am currently probably about 18-20% bodyfat and want to get a few % more off that in the time which seems doable.

Quinnaay i find the MP shakes to be just as tasty and good for the money.(natural strawberry is really nice)

I eat 4 times a day about 2200 calories so maybe i'll cut that down to 2k or so.
 
The only half decent(actually effective) fat burners will not be found on your standard supplement websites.
 
Somnambulist said:
A) fat burners don't work - if they did we'd all be using them
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I disagree with this one.

ECA stack has been proven to have muscle sparing effects, suppressing appetite, while elevating your metabolism. This leads to fat loss. I know, because I have used ECA.

On top this, dont forget about the placebo effect. If a pill has no real effect, but a person believes that it will make them faster/stronger/athletic, etc, then that person is likely to push themselves harder during training. This will have an added effect of increased calorie usage, which in turn will reduce body weight (fat and muscle). In otherwords, the (fake) pill has done its job.

There are also fat blockers which have been scientifically proven to work.

I could go on and on, but some pills can definitely aid fat loss. No doubt about it.
 
Sycho said:
Yeah i know 5 weeks isn't much but i am currently probably about 18-20% bodyfat and want to get a few % more off that in the time which seems doable.
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Nothing wrong with wanting to drop a few percentage points of fat before a big day/week/holiday. It definitely doable.
 
sunama said:
I disagree with this one.

ECA stack has been proven to have muscle sparing effects, suppressing appetite, while elevating your metabolism. This leads to fat loss. I know, because I have used ECA.

On top this, dont forget about the placebo effect. If a pill has no real effect, but a person believes that it will make them faster/stronger/athletic, etc, then that person is likely to push themselves harder during training. This will have an added effect of increased calorie usage, which in turn will reduce body weight (fat and muscle). In otherwords, the (fake) pill has done its job.

There are also fat blockers which have been scientifically proven to work.

I could go on and on, but some pills can definitely aid fat loss. No doubt about it.
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The metabolic boost of ECA is like 5% at best, plus it's
a) a bit of a grey area - you can't buy ephedrine off the shelf and although you can buy it over the counter, you essentially have to fib to get it and even then you have to do this multiple times at difference shops in order to get the required volume for a decent stint
b) some people get funky side effects
c) most people take ECA/EC as part of a fat-loss protocol and add in more movement etc (e.g. fasted AM cardio) which is what gives them more of the results.

Then you have stuff like Yohimbine etc, but it's only of use if you're already lean, diet is in check and you're trying to get rid of the last pockets of stubborn fat - pretty specific stuff.

I was really talking about stuff you can buy legally/not a shady area. If that goes out the window then I can think of at least one thing you can get online that is literally the holy grail of fat loss... if you're prepared to take something with an LD50 that's not far off the effective dose. Gambling with your life for a few extra lbs lost = no thanks jeff (not that it stops a lot of people).

If it's rapid fat loss you're after, safely, then a protein sparing modified fast ala Lyle's RFL book/protocol is your best bet - it's safe, lots of people have done it and got great results, but it's not fun at all and you need to adhere to it.
 
Somnambulist said:
The metabolic boost of ECA is like 5% at best,
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I wont disagree with you on this.
However, you are completely disregarding the placebo/psychological effects of being on "something".

The motivation that you get from being on "something" or by joining a new gym or buying a new piece of training equipment, can motivate you to accomplish far better results. There is a guy on this forum who uses a device called "fitbit". This has motivated him to some great results.

With regards to the ECA - in my personal experience it suppresses appetite and if I am eating less and feeling weak, the ECA gives me a "boost" which allows me to run/cycle/exercise harder than I would normally have been able to. The leanest I have ever been was when I was on ECA. Caffeine on its own should be able to achieve similar results.

I think that the original question was "do anti-fat pills work?"
IMO, some pills can definitely help reduce fat (verses not using them at all). I've read too many success stories, to disregard them. I've also successfully used ECA.
 
You still need to be the right side of the energy equation though - I suspect 99% of people who take your off the shelf fat burner aren't even in a caloric deficit and know little to nothing about nutrition. Also it's all very well having something motivate you but for every success story, there's just as many people taking up exercise or a specific diet who get nowhere because they get the fundamentals wrong. These people won't tend to post their failures, where as the people who are successful will usually share their results which skews things.

Something like an ECA stack isn't something you'd jump into without researching thoroughly as a little boost on top of a sensible fat loss protocol, I wouldn't go blindly recommending it to someone looking to drop as much weight as possible in as short as space of time as possible. The other problem with recommending the uninformed any sort of product designed to enhance losses/gainz, legal or otherwise, is invariably they rationalise "if A amount will give this result, surely Ax2 amount will give me double the results", and they put their health (and in some cases life) at risk, or at best simply end up becoming reliant on substances because they think they need them to lose/gain effectively.

Hence although I'm well aware there are a couple of products which can aid fat loss, it's easier to just to say 'no' to people who don't appear to have a firm enough grasp of the subject in the first place rather than set them off down a potentially rocky road.
 
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About 3 weeks into my diet and lost 2KG, aim to lose 5KG by end of march. I was 107 KG so want to drop to a nice 100kg (caused by bulking)

I think people definitely need to be addressing diet over anything before pilling up. I have found even a few changes have had big effects - I do a soup lunch (no bread) , dont snack on nuts at 11 and 3 and its helped curve about 500 cals from normal.
Seems excessive until you realise I was probably on about a 2500-3000cal diet a day easily. My weight routine is obviously a bit harsher but I certainly havent slumped. I do however have to maybe invest in some super greens as my fatigue levels have gone crazy.
 
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wozza2k said:
Ordered 2.5kg of choc peanut butter whey from myprotein. Taste horrid, like burnt nuts, do not want.
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I've got 5kg of strawberry cream and it's quite bad. Metallic, overpowering and artificial taste. Oh well. Think I'll get unflavoured next time, as I had it before and thought I'd save money instead of buying nesquick to fill 5kg.
 
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