support for the british worker

[Skidder]

I'll qualify my remark. ........I sit there wondering how office wallahs can justify their salaries when almost anybody with rudimentary pc skills can do their ****-easy jobs.

I am not sure that this group of office wallahs people seem to be comparing to actually exist. I think you are effectively assuming all work that isn't done on a site, face, pit, lab or tip is admin or data entry. There are a miriad different roles conducted within offices, some challenging, some not, some justify significant income, some don't.

I have an economics degree and an MBA and a decade of experience in a niche field (not to mention talent and IQ), that justify my income, my work is not ****-easy and goes a little bit beyond PC skills.

It seems that the people in this thread who are bent out of shape could do with eliminating certain misconceptions from their world view and certain words from their vocabulary.

Fat cats - please, are you people Arthur bloody Scargill's love children

Office Wallahs - yes, everybody who doesn't get blisters through their work is on some cushy number, getting paid a fortune because they can type

The higher-ups - stop creating invisible barriers, rather than being snide, decide how to elevate yourself

waps etc. - the racism in this thread is only very thinly veiled, we're part of Europe, get over it

Take control of your own lives and don't excpect "them" (unions, govt etc. etc.) to plan your careers for you.

 

[wordy]

That's the thing I don't get - all the moaning about lazy brits claiming benefits and having to commit crime to buy food etc, then celebrating a policy that will force more white working-class people into claiming benefits and criminal activities. It's taking self-loathing to a totally bizarre new level

It won't happen until the jobs that most of the people on here do are outsourced to cheap labour from somewhere like india. Then they'll start complaining that they're been squeezed out of the market and we should all stand together to fight it.

 

[scorza]

I think everyone knows this. Most management and fat cat jobs aren't for life and you can get replaced very quickly if shareholders don't have faith in your abilities.

Oh poor them with all their millions in the bank Of course, we've all been told for decades that they deserve it and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Well how come senior executives at some of Britain's biggest companies, who aren't monkeys, have managed to take their shareholder's investments to the brink of worthless? And these people (Sir Fred "the Shred" Goodwin of RBS springs to mind" weren't forced to resign by the shareholders - it was the government who had to step in and force them out (sans massive payout that shareholders decided they were entitled to even if they failed).

 

[RDM]

That's the thing I don't get - all the moaning about lazy brits claiming benefits and having to commit crime to buy food etc

How many brits actually have to commit crime to feed themselves? Most of them seem to commit crime to feed a habit or for cash they can't be bothered earning. Our welfare system is generally such that no one has to starve in the UK.

It won't happen until the jobs that most of the people on here do are outsourced to cheap labour from somewhere like india. Then they'll start complaining that they're been squeezed out of the market and we should all stand together to fight it.

Speaking as someone who works in IT outsourcing to India has been going on for years. What you do is skill up and move in to a role that can't be easily outsourced or adds more value being in house. Do you really think that protectionism is the way to secure British workers futures?

 

[scorza]

Speaking as someone who works in IT outsourcing to India has been going on for years. What you do is skill up and move in to a role that can't be easily outsourced or adds more value being in house. Do you really think that protectionism is the way to secure British workers futures?

And since not everyone can do this, the result is unemployment.

Goldenballs Obama clearly believes that protectionist policies are a way to secure US worker's futures. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7866308.stm

 

[RDM]

And since not everyone can do this, the result is unemployment.

Yet the number of jobs in the UK up to the point of the recession (which is a global issue) was increasing. Why if everything is being outsourced? The UK labour market changes, people need to adapt to that. My options seem to be "Moan about it and lose my job" or "Adapt for a new job". I know which one I would rather do.

Though I will let you know in 6 months if it is working as end of march I need to find a new job.

Goldenballs Obama clearly believes that protectionist policies are a way to secure US worker's futures. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7866308.stm

I don't share the worlds adoration of Obama and think that he is wrong to start introducting protectionist measures. The US might be able to get away with it due to the size of it's economy, but for the UK it would lead to a longer downturn and probably a depression, much like last time.

 

[oweneades]

On the days where I spend all day catching up with my editing and typing in the office (as opposed to actually getting the company's products built up and on test) I sit there wondering how office wallahs can justify their salaries when almost anybody with rudimentary pc skills can do their ****-easy jobs.

You appear to have a very ignorant view of what working in an office can entail.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Oh poor them with all their millions in the bank Of course, we've all been told for decades that they deserve it and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Well how come senior executives at some of Britain's biggest companies, who aren't monkeys, have managed to take their shareholder's investments to the brink of worthless? And these people (Sir Fred "the Shred" Goodwin of RBS springs to mind" weren't forced to resign by the shareholders - it was the government who had to step in and force them out (sans massive payout that shareholders decided they were entitled to even if they failed).

If those bank CEOs hadn't have acted the way they did, they would have been sacked by their shareholders from not bringing in as much as XYZ bank.

And why do you think it is sensible to sack experienced people as a knee-jerk reaction to a crisis?

Yeah. That'll really work. Lets sack all the experienced (thus well paid) bankers - that will help the banking industry.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

I have "A" levels and an HND and I used to work in the waste industry.

Well there you go. That is why you were just given "**** easy" jobs in the office, because you suck and have no good qualifications.

You sound scathing and jealous, I don't like you.

 

[FTM]

do no british people work abroad? I am willing to bet people would be equally up in arms if other coutnries deported UK workers back so they could fill jobs with local workers

 

[Skidder]

do no british people work abroad? I am willing to bet people would be equally up in arms if other coutnries deported UK workers back so they could fill jobs with local workers

This is happening to some degree in the UAE with the Emaratiisation (spl?) policies. Quotas for getting locals in roles. That's scuppered slightly by the fact that many locals don't put in the effort to get the qualifications to take on said roles, so they end up giving token positions to locals and retain ex-pats.

 

[Skidder]

This thread gets a bit one sided in the day, when its angrier posters are out breaking rocks or whatever it is they do, while I sit here with my feet up, sipping espresso while my PA gives me a pedicure and reads the financial times to me. Ahhhhhh

 

[scorza]

If those bank CEOs hadn't have acted the way they did, they would have been sacked by their shareholders from not bringing in as much as XYZ bank.

And why do you think it is sensible to sack experienced people as a knee-jerk reaction to a crisis?

Yeah. That'll really work. Lets sack all the experienced (thus well paid) bankers - that will help the banking industry.

Welcome to the real world, where if you fail there are consequences - and I don't mean a hefty payout and knighthood. About time the banking industry joined the rest of us.

It was perfectly possible to make profits while not ruining the company's long term stability, as can be seen by HSBC's performance. It's just a shame that for too long the banks have been happy to employ mental midgets in senior roles.

 

[wordy]

If those bank CEOs hadn't have acted the way they did, they would have been sacked by their shareholders from not bringing in as much as XYZ bank.

And why do you think it is sensible to sack experienced people as a knee-jerk reaction to a crisis?

Yeah. That'll really work. Lets sack all the experienced (thus well paid) bankers - that will help the banking industry.

Because they have carried out their jobs in a negligent manner and created this mess. It's not ok to let people under perform and still keep them on just because they've been doing it for awhile.

 

[Skidder]

Because they have carried out their jobs in a negligent manner and created this mess. It's not ok to let people under perform and still keep them on just because they've been doing it for awhile.

Negligent, how so?

With the packaging and re-packaging of bad debt, it actually became pretty muddied as to what the position and exposure of the banks was. This is a global crisis and is in part a product of the good times the banks have enjoyed (while these same people were making fortunes for their shareholders.) No single CEO is to blame, no single govt, no single investment bank professional with a bright idea to flog off some toxic debt, the whole shabang has imploded after some good years.

 

[PikeyPriest]

Oh poor them with all their millions in the bank Of course, we've all been told for decades that they deserve it and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Well how come senior executives at some of Britain's biggest companies, who aren't monkeys, have managed to take their shareholder's investments to the brink of worthless? And these people (Sir Fred "the Shred" Goodwin of RBS springs to mind" weren't forced to resign by the shareholders - it was the government who had to step in and force them out (sans massive payout that shareholders decided they were entitled to even if they failed).

And how many office workers are on these kind of salaries? You make the assumption that anyone who wears a shirt+tie to work is on 100+k and then wrongly assume that they don't deserve it. Education is open to all in this country, excluding extreme circumstances (ie have to work due to support family members, newborns...etc) there is no excuse for people not trying to gain qualifications and earning more money.

IE - If you factory job is paying badly, why don't or didn't you think about plumbing or learning a trade? Or if you wanted a high paying job, why didn't you work harder at school to go to university? Complaining isn't going to change anything, give you a higher salary or make you more employable in the future.

 

[dowie]

Well if all you're concerned about is the bottom line, then nothing. Just remember you can all be replaced.

well erm yeah...

which is why people work hard to get qualifications/experience in order to make themselves more valuable and harder to replace.

If you're doing monkey work that thousands of others are willing to do for a much lower price then replacing you becomes a lot easier.

 

[RDM]

It was perfectly possible to make profits while not ruining the company's long term stability, as can be seen by HSBC's performance. It's just a shame that for too long the banks have been happy to employ mental midgets in senior roles.

HSBC certainly hasn't been immune to the current crisis. Their losses to the Maddof fraud are quite high and they own HFC which has massive exposure to the US bad mortgage debt. They have been a somewhat more conservative bank when it came to consolidated debt instruments however.

Their conservative attitude is also causing quite a few problems atm as they are not loaning out the money that they have to the other banks.

 

[scorza]

And how many office workers are on these kind of salaries? You make the assumption that anyone who wears a shirt+tie to work is on 100+k and then wrongly assume that they don't deserve it. Education is open to all in this country, excluding extreme circumstances (ie have to work due to support family members, newborns...etc) there is no excuse for people not trying to gain qualifications and earning more money.

IE - If you factory job is paying badly, why don't or didn't you think about plumbing or learning a trade? Or if you wanted a high paying job, why didn't you work harder at school to go to university? Complaining isn't going to change anything, give you a higher salary or make you more employable in the future.

I was talking about senior banking executives, so pretty much all of them.

For the record I wear a shirt+tie to work, I work in an office (well, from home atm) and do ok financially tyvm. But you see, just because I am all right jack doesn't mean I feel the need to revel in the misfortune of others. I have a lot of empathy for the guys on strike, and while I can't condone wildcat strikes, I do understand their point of view.

Oh and you say complaining doesn't change anything, but you're so wrong there. This strike isn't going to mean IREM losing its contract, but it will make the powers that be in many British companies think again about how they treat British workers.

 

[PikeyPriest]

Oh and you say complaining doesn't change anything, but you're so wrong there. This strike isn't going to mean IREM losing its contract, but it will make the powers that be in many British companies think again about how they treat British workers.

Do you think the UK will break EU policy and go for protectionism? Ultimately importing foreign workers is likely to become more common in the future. Improving workers skill-set is the best way to increase job prospects in the future.