Surreal thing happened to me today...

[bigmike20vt]

Nope. Specifically I mentioned the training and the equipment the he would have had as a member of the Police; also that it's part of his job. But that doesn't just apply to the Police.

I also mentioned the military, and we can include bouncers and security guards in this too if you like.

Certain groups of people are trained and equipped to deal with conflict.

Would you help a bouncer restrain someone? Would you go to Afghanistan and help clear mines? In your jeans and T-shirt and using a wooden stick?

I see your point and even respect it to a degree.. it is your choice to get involved or not get involved and i am not gonna judge anyone who steps back and dials 999 for help...... those who stand and watch videoing it and not even call for help are a whole level of pond scum however but I dont think I have seen you defend them anyway. Hell until in the situation i am not even sure if i would be doing the same as you...... BUT that does not take away from the fact that OP did a good thing imo.

now regarding your last bit of your post.
would i go clearing mines? No probably not BUT if i was in the area and a mine clearer got his leg blown off i would like to think i would (carefully) try to get out to him and try to stop his bloodloss and drag him to saftey.

as for the bouncer......... I guess it is a judgement thing, but personally I trust the police (in general) and consider them in 99% of cases to be in the right, (if the guy on the scooter had done as he was told I am certain it would not have gone south, and I do believe in doing what the police tell you) where as my personal experience of bouncers is more................ mixed

therefore if i saw an altercation with a bouncer go south I *may* try and push an attacker of a bouncer who was giving him a thrashing and say "ok mate enough is enough now be on your way" I would be less confident that the bouncer was in the right to begin with so probably would not go in with the haymakers out.

but again that is just due to personal experiences.

 

[Efour]

You're making assumptions. I never said which was the aggressor. One is down and injured and another is beating on him.

Then what's the relevance of two guys physical attributes? I think you are fibbing. It doesn't even matter.

 

[Efour]

I'm getting visions of Nazi Germany right here.

Everyday I wake up with visions of Nazi Germany. The so called democracy is nothing but a police state run by faceless autocratic technocrats and their uniformed enforcement pawns.

 

[FoxEye]

Look back at what I quoted, where is mention of the military? Please don't make things up.

If a bouncer was down and being beaten by someone, yes, why wouldn't you help if you felt you could? To me you have some odd logic.

What is it with reading comprehension skills here?

*I* mentioned the military. My post even says that.

 

[FoxEye]

I see your point and even respect it to a degree.. it is your choice to get involved or not get involved and i am not gonna judge anyone who steps back and dials 999 for help...... those who stand and watch videoing it and not even call for help are a whole level of pond scum however but I dont think I have seen you defend them anyway. Hell until in the situation i am not even sure if i would be doing the same as you...... BUT that does not take away from the fact that OP did a good thing imo.

now regarding your last bit of your post.
would i go clearing mines? No probably not BUT if i was in the area and a mine clearer got his leg blown off i would like to think i would (carefully) try to get out to him and try to stop his bloodloss and drag him to saftey.

Yikes. That's a terrible idea mate.

You're likely to just end up in the same position. Esp since in the context of this example we're assuming no experience clearing mines and no equipment.

Wandering into a minefield to assist someone who's just been fatally injured by a mine... call me cold but that strikes me as pretty much suicidal.

Also yeah I wouldn't stand around videoing it. OTOH, police to use this as evidence now, so...

 

[bigmike20vt]

Yikes. That's a terrible idea mate.

You're likely to just end up in the same position. Esp since in the context of this example we're assuming no experience clearing mines and no equipment.

lol to be fair there is a lot of small print there that i didnt put in.... as in only if i thought i had half a chance of doing it ie possibly by tracing the route took by the guy (or gal) BEFORE they blew their leg off

can i just also say for the record....... because i know some are a little heated in this thread, To me this is all just interesting chit chat and i hope i am not putting my size 11s in it and causing any offence to anyone . this is never my intention

 

[MookJong]

I don't have a clue what I would actually do if put in this situation. I am too skinny to be able to restrain someone, or fight

You would be surprised what you can do even with low body weight if you know Ju-Jitsu. If you are a wimp though then it wont help lol.

 

[builder22]

If you just volleyed the escaping criminal would that still count as helping?

 

[FoxEye]

If you just volleyed the escaping criminal would that still count as helping?

Well that's another thing.

If they are trying to get away you can't use "unreasonable force" or you are breaking the law yourself.

So if you rugby tackled them and they fell to the floor and smashed their head and ended up with brain damage - you're going to be prosecuted. And probably jailed.

 

[Martynt74]

So I absolutely do not understand the mentality of people falling over themselves to say how they would ignore any risk to get into a fight with a "huge gay" over a scooter. Seems like a great way to shorten your life.

Not sure i want to get into a bum fight with a huge gay either

 

[HoneyBadger]

I must admit, I didn't ask him about his sexual preference, nor declare mine before I 'went in' !

 

[ttaskmaster]

Going to ignore the nonsense about wish me an agonising death, lol. Take your meds, man.

Strawman. I never wished it. I just said I'm doing nothing to help you during it.

By the logic of the bit I've quoted, we don't "deserve" to have our military fight on our behalf

Well no, you don't, not with attitudes like that. In truth, that's why I and a number of other soldiers left. We're not going to die for entitled ***** who don't give a **** about anything but themselves... especially since they're usually the ones who whine the loudest when everyone else then treats them with that same attitude of disregard!

Worst argument I've ever heard for why e-scooters should be illegal.

It's an assertion of why they already are illegal. Should/shouldn't doesn't matter - They are, it's a fact, that is all.

Do you know how many cyclists die every year in London? No one asks to make bikes or e-bikes illegal.

They do ask for them to be more regulated and the cyclists held more accountable, though...

They will be legal within a few years as their popularity soars around the world.

IF......

 

[FoxEye]

Well no, you don't, not with attitudes like that. In truth, that's why I and a number of other soldiers left. We're not going to die for entitled ***** who don't give a **** about anything but themselves... especially since they're usually the ones who whine the loudest when everyone else then treats them with that same attitude of disregard!

So let me summarise your position here.

Unless we (as civilians) are prepared to take up arms and fight, we don't "deserve" to have a professional military doing so "on our behalf".

Despite the fact that I didn't ask anyone in the military to take up that profession. I'll concede we probably do need people doing those jobs, tho.

But unless I'm willing to go and do it, we don't "deserve" to have a professional, trained military doing it?

That's the only way I can interpret what you're saying.

Or maybe you're saying, "Unless you're prepared to get into a fight to help a cop, you don't deserve to have people serving in the military." That's the only other possible interpretation.

I don't think either are particularly rational. It's a dangerous job that you signed up for knowing the risks. Other people didn't sign up for those risks.

 

[bigmike20vt]

logically I think @FoxEye is correct.......... however in @ttaskmaster shoes I con totally see how it would be demoralising to have the general populace continually moaning and yet not doing anything to help as well - to get back on point - much like the police, many people hate them with a passion and will do their best to not help them - just like the man on the scooter - but at the same time expect them to be on hand as soon as needed AND be able to do their job properly - despite the attitude of not helping the police that many have......... Hence why some quit I presume. I dont know huge amounts about the forces but my understanding is it does not pay *that* well considering what they may have to do, and the risk to life as well as possible issues after serving. The police seems to pay ok and you do get to retire early..... but it does not seem to be the job it once was.

another seque here but.... I do think those adverts tempting people into the forces are at best pretty bad at worst outright dishonest.... they show a teenager getting training for future careers after serving, they show expensive high tech gear and camaraderie and team work.

but I dont think I have EVER seen one showing troops at an actual warzone shooting at people or under fire which surely has to be potentially a significant part of being in the forces. It is a bit like advertising an entry level job at McDonalds without mentioning you would need to flip burgers.

 

[dan958]

You would be surprised what you can do even with low body weight if you know Ju-Jitsu. If you are a wimp though then it wont help lol.

I have no interest in learning, so if ever in a situatuon where it would be handy, I wll just roll over and play dead.

 

[ttaskmaster]

So let me summarise your position here.

Please don't... you'll only get it wrong and then try arguing against a different point.

Unless we (as civilians) are prepared to take up arms and fight, we don't "deserve" to have a professional military doing so "on our behalf".

Technically, yes, as you'd never have a military without people thus prepared.
Morally, most certainly, as society is everyones' responsibility. If you don't care enough about it to help protect it, why should anyone else?

But factually, no. That isn't what I said.

But unless I'm willing to go and do it, we don't "deserve" to have a professional, trained military doing it?

Yup.
Because if you're not going to, why should I or anyone else?

That's the only way I can interpret what you're saying.

Stop trying to 'interpret' it, then. It doesn't need your personal take on it.

I don't think either are particularly rational. It's a dangerous job that you signed up for knowing the risks. Other people didn't sign up for those risks.

I guess you won't be needing fire extinguishers either, then? I mean, you're not trained to use them, and it's a dangerous situation, but presumably you feel entitled to let the fire brigade deal with it instead, right? Forget about your neighbour or your own family burning to death, you didn't sign up to be a firefighter... Just you go stand over there, in the way, where you can get a good shot of it all on yer phone.

Other people still get those risks visited upon them, whether they like it and signed up for it or not, and those who did sign up will often be unable to help when it happens... usually they cannot prevent it at all, and only deal with the clean-up afterward.

I con totally see how it would be demoralising to have the general populace continually moaning and yet not doing anything to help as well

It's more the complete and direct opposition to helping someone else, their buck-passing validation pleas for avoiding responsibility, the subsequent treatment of it as some kind of entertainment, and the hypocritical whining once they're the ones needing help.
I'd have more respect if they just said, "I don't want to get involved"... but the string of well-considered justifications suggest people recognise the social responsibility and are merely shirking it.

but I dont think I have EVER seen one showing troops at an actual warzone shooting at people or under fire which surely has to be potentially a significant part of being in the forces.

That only applies if you're in one of the combat trades. The point is generally to advertise for the many other specialist roles that need filling, like engineers, drivers, cooks and clerks, most of whom won't ever even see a warzone. The only time they'll pick up a weapon is for the Annual Personal Weapons Test. You'll only be 'under fire' when you crawl under the barbecue to pick up a sausage that rolled off!

 

[area51]

If the copper gets hurt during the scuffle then he's covered and has an army of people behind him to aid him and sort his finances out. You get hurt helping said copper then you're basically ****** and left to sort it out yourself. And on top of that, you could end up getting taken to the cleaners by the guy who you helped him to subdue and arrest.

not strictly true as things like that come under things like the Saint Christopher's act!

 

[bigmike20vt]

That only applies if you're in one of the combat trades. The point is generally to advertise for the many other specialist roles that need filling, like engineers, drivers, cooks and clerks, most of whom won't ever even see a warzone. The only time they'll pick up a weapon is for the Annual Personal Weapons Test. You'll only be 'under fire' when you crawl under the barbecue to pick up a sausage that rolled off!

That is a good point I didnt consider... lol @ the last bit.

 

[Efour]

I liked the guy that will attempt to rescue an injured professional mine clearance expert after he or she has proven they don't do their job well enough.

To me that's one of the best GD moments in my history.

Bravo.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I liked the guy that will attempt to rescue an injured professional mine clearance expert after he or she has proven they don't do their job well enough.

To me that's one of the best GD moments in my history.

Bravo.

Hey i did say there was significant small print I didnt include

perhaps running with the mine field analogy was not the best example however