Taiwan and China thread.

[AORUS]

Nope, it's never been ruled by the CCP, you don't have to go back to any time period as you're unable to cite any time when it was governed by the CCP.



It never belonged to the PRC and you're wrong re: the lease too; there was no 99-year lease on HK island, you're getting confused with the 99-year lease on the new territories. HK Island was given to the PRC because it wasn't practical to split from the new territories, the CCP didn't want to extend the lease on the new territories and they threatened to cut the water off. The UK had no choice but to give it up.

It's got naff all relevance to Taiwan though.

You're not very good at this, first you made a flawed analogy with Scotland then you get basic facts wrong in your next reply.

You just sounds like my history teacher when he ask who won the WWII- I reply Russia

It Reads in history
On June 9, 1898, the British under Queen Victoria brokered a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium. Britain was granted an additional 99 years of rule over the Hong Kong colony under the Second Convention of Peking. Hong Kong was occupied by the Japanese from 1941 to 1944 during World War II but remained in British hands throughout the various Chinese political upheavals of the 20th century.

Several times in the first half of the 20th century, Britain considered relinquishing the lease to China because the island simply wasn't important to England anymore. But in 1941, Japan seized Hong Kong. U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt tried to pressure British Prime Minister Winston Churchill (1874–1965) to return the island to China as a concession for its support in the war, but Churchill refused. At the end of World War II, Britain still controlled Hong Kong, although the Americans continued to pressure it to return the island to China.

By 1949, the People's Liberation Army led by Mao Zedong (1893–1976) had taken over China, and the West was now afraid that Communists would get their hands on a suddenly invaluable post for espionage, especially during the Korean War. While the Gang of Four did consider sending troops to Hong Kong in 1967, they ultimately did not sue for the return of Hong Kong. (PLA)

Your getting confused it was for HK & territories
On July 1, 1997, when the lease term expired the government of Great Britain transferred control of British Hong Kong and the surrounding territories to the People's Republic of China. PRC

I leave the links happy reading

Britain agrees to return Hong Kong to China | December 19, 1984 | HISTORY

In the Hall of the People in Beijing, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Chinese Premier Zhao Ziyang sign an agreement committing Britain to return Hong Kong to China in 1997 in return for terms guaranteeing a 50‑year extension of its capitalist system. Hong Kong–a small peninsula and...

www.history.com

2

Why Did Hong Kong Belong to Britain?

For 100 years, Hong Kong was known as British Hong Kong, first as a crown colony and then under a lease to Queen Victoria's British Empire.

www.thoughtco.com

Not naff but basic history

 

[AORUS]

No but Feef sounds far more qualified than you and everything I've ever read makes me believe Taiwan is very happy being independent of mainland China and your comparison to Scotland is laughable.

Off cause I'm wrong even history I forgot

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Off cause everyone is wrong even history only your right

With respect, what are you trying to say?

 

[dowie]

sigh... the history understander has logged on again

On June 9, 1898, the British under Queen Victoria brokered a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium.[...]

Not naff but basic history

Nope, Hong Kong Island was already ceded to the UK decades earlier in 1842 and as I already pointed out to you the 99-year lease was for the new territories:

British Hong Kong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The island was ceded to Britain by the Treaty of Nanking, ratified by the Daoguang Emperor in the aftermath of the war of 1842. It was established as a crown colony in 1843. In 1860, the British took the opportunity to expand the colony with the addition of the Kowloon Peninsula after the Second Opium War, while the Qing was embroiled in handling the Taiping Rebellion. With the Qing further weakened after the First Sino-Japanese War, Hong Kong's territory was further extended in 1898 when the British obtained a 99-year lease of the New Territories.

 

[AORUS]

sigh... the history understander has logged on again



Nope, Hong Kong Island was already ceded to the UK decades earlier in 1842 and as I already pointed out to you the 99-year lease was for the new territories:

British Hong Kong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So the History channel is wrong again! (I must tell them) Thanks to Wikip save the day again I used to get pick on using it here but hay we learn every day@OCUK

 

[dowie]

So the History channel is wrong again! (I must tell them) Thanks to Wikip save the day again I used to get pick on using it here but hay we learn every day

I mean you could have just paid attention to what was said in reply in the first place then you'd have some context to understand that the history.com website had simplified things. Of course, you could also go to wiki and look at the article re: the treaty and see for yourself too.

 

[AORUS]

I mean you could have just paid attention to what was said in reply in the first place then you'd have some context to understand that the history.com website had simplified things. Of course, you could also go to wiki and look at the article re: the treaty and see for yourself too.

I read Wikipedia is not a reliable source on history but hay who am I to judge! And then be told I could have paid attention! I never agree with you as I read/think out of the box

 

[Dis86]

I'm curious how one 'thinks outside the box' with established historical fact. To me it sounds like you're saying you make things up.

 

[dowie]

I read Wikipedia is not a reliable source on history but hay who am I to judge! And then be told I could have paid attention! I never agree with you as I read/think out of the box

Then read the text of the original treaty!

 

[AORUS]

I'm curious how one 'thinks outside the box' with established historical fact. To me it sounds like you're saying you make things up.

I'm soo surprised you never heard (Think of the box) means to think differently, unconventionally, or from a new perspective

 

[AORUS]

Then read the text of the original treaty!

So demanding, why to prove to yourself you right! my answer is NO I'm not a Wikip reader

 

[dowie]

I'm soo surprised you never heard (Think of the box) means to think differently, unconventionally, or from a new perspective

It's not that he's not heard of the term but rather you're misapplying it, thinking about things differently doesn't mean you need ignore or misunderstand basic facts.

It's not much use to look at things from a new perspective if your perspective is fundamentally flawed because you can't get the basics correct.

 

[Feef]

I've had a nice weekend, so took time off from replying to this, but:

Then you should know the history of Taiwan and know what the people of China mainland would ask you about your opinions of Taiwan!

Nobody in China ever asked my opinions of Taiwan, but I was also living there at a time before Xi Jinping, when there was a bit less stoking of the nationalist fervour as a distraction.

, We are class as foreigners to the Chinese you would no that!

This is written as if you were speaking from the Taiwanese side - and is correct, flights from China to Taiwan depart through international rather than domestic terminals. As, y'know, it's not the same country.

And we not aloud to talk about Taiwan to any students as many still thinks Taiwan is a part of China.

This part is ambiguous, but for both it would help to know who "we" are. I taught various Chinese students studying at university in Taiwan, and we mostly had interesting discussions about it. Again, because it's fine to do that in Taiwan.

I'm not here to convince anyone in OCUK members as I can already see the Facebook and twitter fans here, World History wars shouldn't be repeated but still in 21st century wars continue, arming other countries like Taiwan the US should stay out of other countries political disagreements not stir up more trouble in the East, but we're blinded by real truth news and on social media news reports coming out of Ukraine most been fake because it sales faster then truth.

Taiwan requests arms from the US, it's hardly being forced upon them. Do you think they do that because they enjoy overpaying for older technology, or because they have a belligerent neighbour who they think it might be wise to be prepared to have to repel?

There's only one party fuelling talk of a war, and it's not the island who would just like to be left alone, nor is it the ones arming them who continue to act entirely in line with their interpretation of the one China policy. It's the one that threatens consequences for any perceived slight against them, and have backed themselves so far in to a corner by repeating "Taiwan is part of China!" so often that it's continued independence is an incredibly embarrassing loss of face.

 

[AORUS]

It's not that he's not heard of the term but rather you're misapplying it, thinking about things differently doesn't mean you need ignore or misunderstand basic facts.

It's not much use to look at things from a new perspective if your perspective is fundamentally flawed because you can't get the basics correct.

I gave you the history website and link to the history but because it's not written by Wikip it can't be true! OK what website is! Of cause it got to be Wikip

 

[dowie]

I gave you the history website and link to the history but because it's not written by Wikip it can't be true! OK what website is! Of cause it got to be Wikip

Who is wikip? Wikipedia is edited by multiple people, the history website isn't incorrect because it's "not written by Wikip".

Again you can read the text of the treaty if you like, this isn't hard to follow.

When did the UK gain control of HK island? Can you answer that? What was the name of the treaty? What year was it signed?

(Hint: the 99 year lease on the new territories ended in 1997 but HK island was already ceded to the UK decades before that)

Why not try and address those questions then see the contradiction, you don't need wiki to do that but you perhaps do need an average IQ or above.

 

[AORUS]

I've had a nice weekend, so took time off from replying to this, but:

Nobody in China ever asked my opinions of Taiwan, but I was also living there at a time before Xi Jinping, when there was a bit less stoking of the nationalist fervour as a distraction.

This is written as if you were speaking from the Taiwanese side - and is correct, flights from China to Taiwan depart through international rather than domestic terminals. As, y'know, it's not the same country.

This part is ambiguous, but for both it would help to know who "we" are. I taught various Chinese students studying at university in Taiwan, and we mostly had interesting discussions about it. Again, because it's fine to do that in Taiwan.

Taiwan requests arms from the US, it's hardly being forced upon them. Do you think they do that because they enjoy overpaying for older technology, or because they have a belligerent neighbour who they think it might be wise to be prepared to have to repel?

There's only one party fuelling talk of a war, and it's not the island who would just like to be left alone, nor is it the ones arming them who continue to act entirely in line with their interpretation of the one China policy. It's the one that threatens consequences for any perceived slight against them, and have backed themselves so far in to a corner by repeating "Taiwan is part of China!" so often that it's continued independence is an incredibly embarrassing loss of face.

1. I wasn't talking about Taiwan students or Chinese students study in Taiwan I was talk about China students in mainland and No you wasn't aloud to talk about Taiwan in China, 14 years ago
2. Do you think China would bomb Taiwan! when 92% are Chinese business and students working a studying there, if Taiwan is free nation why can't they join in Nato! Or be independence!

Beijing say that Taiwan is bound by an understanding known as the 1992 Consensus, which was reached between representatives of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and the Kuomintang (KMT) party that then ruled Taiwan.

You're right (There's only one party fuelling talks of war) United States the next plan 'B' in the works after Ukraine war, it will be Taiwan war. Of cause China is evil so is Russia and America is good! Yes, I know that there are a lot of people who just can’t change their respective views for the United States, the American people finally starting to wake to how bad the Government is but too late.

 

[AORUS]

Who is wikip? Wikipedia is edited by multiple people, the history website isn't incorrect because it's "not written by Wikip".

Again you can read the text of the treaty if you like, this isn't hard to follow.

When did the UK gain control of HK island? Can you answer that? What was the name of the treaty? What year was it signed?

(Hint: the 99 year lease on the new territories ended in 1997 but HK island was already ceded to the UK decades before that)

Why not try and address those questions then see the contradiction, you don't need wiki to do that but you perhaps do need an average IQ or above.

There you go again, HK was part of the new terrorises that Pekin (Beijing) sign the 99 year lease, you confused yourself over just the new terrorises.

Part one

Britain agrees to return Hong Kong to China | December 19, 1984 | HISTORY

In the Hall of the People in Beijing, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Chinese Premier Zhao Ziyang sign an agreement committing Britain to return Hong Kong to China in 1997 in return for terms guaranteeing a 50‑year extension of its capitalist system. Hong Kong–a small peninsula and...

www.history.com

Part two

Hong Kong ceded to the British | January 20, 1841 | HISTORY

During the First Opium War, China cedes the island of Hong Kong to the British with the signing of the Chuenpi Convention, an agreement seeking an end to the first Anglo‑Chinese conflict. In 1839, Britain invaded China to crush opposition to its interference in the country’s economic and...

www.history.com

do need an average IQ or above.

How rude for the second time, I thought there was forum rules apply to all, if you read the links I gave you I will read Wikip and we solve this matter peacefully without name calling if don't want to solved it I was right along

 

[dowie]

There you go again, HK was part of the new terrorises that Pekin (Beijing) sign the 99 year lease, you confused yourself over just the new terrorises,

See you can't answer the questions so you've just ignored them and then thrown in another dodgy claim that can be easily disproven:

New Territories - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can answer for you if you like:

When did the UK gain control of HK island? Can you answer that? What was the name of the treaty? What year was it signed?

It was ceded to the UK under the Treaty of Nanking in 1942... here's a painting of that moment:



So we've got an issue here, if HK island was ceded in 1942 then what does the 99-year lease refer to... oh, wait, look at the map posted above... that would be the new territories as I already told you!

Here is the text of the Treaty of Nanking, signed in 1942:

Treaty of Nanking - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

It being obviously necessary and desirable, that British Subjects should have some Port whereat they may careen and refit their Ships, when required, and Keep Stores for that purpose, His Majesty the Emperor of China cedes to Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., the Island of Hong-Kong, to be possessed in perpetuity by Her Britannic Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and to be governed by such Laws and Regulations as Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., shall see fit to direct.

To help you with the big word above here is a dictionary link:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[AORUS]

See you can't answer the questions so you've just ignored them and then thrown in another dodgy claim that can be easily disproven:

New Territories - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can answer for you if you like:


It was ceded to the UK under the Treaty of Nanking in 1942... here's a painting of that moment:



So we've got an issue here, if HK island was ceded in 1942 then what does the 99-year lease refer to... oh, wait, look at the map posted above... that would be the new territories as I already told you!

Here is the text of the Treaty of Nanking, signed in 1942:

Treaty of Nanking - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

To help you with the big word above here is a dictionary link:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Another Wilkip thread! Did you not read when I said HK was within the new territories? 99 year lease we're on a merry -go round here

I never get into Grammar debates! Polite, secure people do not correct other people’s grammar.

Writing in caps how rude 3rd time, I come back when you clam down

 

[AORUS]

During the First Opium War, China cedes the island of Hong Kong to the British with the signing of the Chuenpi Convention, an agreement seeking an end to the first Anglo-Chinese conflict.

In 1839, Britain invaded China to crush opposition to its interference in the country’s economic and political affairs. One of Britain’s first acts of the war was to occupy Hong Kong, a sparsely inhabited island off the coast of southeast China. In 1841, China ceded the island to the British, and in 1842 the Treaty of Nanking was signed, formally ending the First Opium War.

Britain’s new colony flourished as an East-West trading center and as the commercial gateway and distribution center for southern China. In 1898, Britain was granted an additional 99 years of rule over Hong Kong under the Second Convention of Peking. In September 1984, after years of negotiations, the British and the Chinese signed a formal agreement approving the 1997 turnover of the island in exchange for a Chinese pledge to preserve Hong Kong’s capitalist system.

In 1839, in the First Opium War, Britain invaded China to crush opposition to its interference in the country’s economic, social, and political affairs. One of Britain’s first acts of war was to occupy Hong Kong, a sparsely inhabited island off the coast of southeast China. In 1841 with the signing of the Convention of Chuenpi, and in 1842 the Treaty of Nanking was signed, formally ending the First Opium War. At the end of the Second Opium War (1856-1860), China was forced to cede the Kowloon Peninsula, adjacent to Hong Kong Island, along with other area islands.

Britain’s new colony flourished as an East-West trading center and as the commercial gateway and distribution center for southern China. On July 1, 1898, Britain was granted an additional 99 years of rule over the Hong Kong colony under the Second Convention of Peking. Hong Kong was occupied by the Japanese from 1941 to 1944 during World War II but remained in British hands throughout the various Chinese political upheavals of the 20th century.

On December 19, 1984, after years of negotiations, British and Chinese leaders signed a formal pact approving the 1997 turnover of the colony in exchange for the formulation of a “one country, two systems” policy by China’s communist government. Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher called the agreement “a landmark in the life of the territory, in the course of Anglo-Chinese relations, and in the history of international diplomacy.” Hu Yaobang, the Chinese Communist Party’s secretary-general, called the signing “a red-letter day, an occasion of great joy” for China’s one billion people.

HISTORY.com works with a wide range of writers and editors to create accurate and informative content. All articles are regularly reviewed and updated by the HISTORY.com team. Articles with the “HISTORY.com Editors” byline have been written or edited by the HISTORY.com editors, including Amanda Onion, Missy Sullivan and Matt Mullen.